Coach Maddox  0:03  
Hello, ready Woodring and welcome to The Authentic Gay Man Podcast. I am this has been a long time coming. We've been talking about this for a while. So I'm really excited that here we are. Here's the Today's the day.

Randy Woodring  0:16  
Yeah, thank you for having me. I know we've talked about this for many years, and at least as long as you've had this going, and I kept putting it off, putting it off putting off and I'm ready. Now I'm ready to talk about some things. 

Coach Maddox  0:30  
You know, everything has its time. Everything has its time. So just to let the listeners know, Randy and I, we know each other we're friends, we're peeps, we met through another friend that introduced us, maybe about four ish years ago. And over that period of time, we've gotten to know each other and actually gotten closer, we made on a fairly regular basis for breakfast. And we have a lot to talk about not only just personally but professionally because Randy is a career professional psychotherapist, and his his, you know, his people that he works with are the LGBTQ plus community. So you know, I'm going to put a link in the show notes. Check him out, if you like. And, yeah, anything you'd like to add, Randy?

Randy Woodring  1:23  
I'm not not ready yet. Not right now. So yeah, okay. 

Coach Maddox  1:30  
Well, let's jump right in. First off, you know, as I always do, I'd love to know, what it means to you personally, to be an authentic gay man.

Randy Woodring  1:42  
You know, Maddox. This is something that question I've asked myself, since I've heard you start asking people what this question is. And it's fairly new to me, this concept is fairly new, I would say probably over the last three years, maybe four years, I started this process of learning. What does that mean? Because as I'm 51, and a majority of my life was spent living in authentic, I had no idea what that meant. And through various situations, I thought it was being authentic. But in hindsight, it's completely different. So what it means to me now is to live in a harmonious state for me, and approaching relationships and friendships, whether professional or romantic with kindness, and also I think there's an important part with the pause, in conversation, pausing, if if someone says something that irritates me, or gets under my skin, that pause that pause to reflect on what am I going to say that's going to either elevate this conversation or destroy the conversation. And I guess we can boil that down to mindfulness in conversations. To me, I think that is the most important part. Another really important aspect I feel is being able to fluctuate between being silly and campy, and talking about insignificant things. And then also in the same conversation to be able to dive deeper into some emotional topics. that I feel is a true test of authenticity and a friendship and a relationship.

No, I love that.

Coach Maddox  3:20  
I absolutely love that. And and I think that you're you're talking about mindfulness conversations, and I think there's a real intentionality there. Yeah. And I love that. You know, choosing your, your topics, your words intentionally, and listening intentionally. It's beautiful. I love it. I love your definition. Thank you so much for that one more to add to my absolutely fabulous collection. All right, well. So what I want to know today and talk about is what what has been your biggest life challenge the thing that you've really, you know, gone through or maybe you're still continuing to go through.

Randy Woodring  4:07  
I think it's been authentic. I think that's been my life's biggest challenge. And that looks in various came in various forms. So for example, just being gay. I grew up in a small town, Oklahoma, very conservative, very Baptist and grew up learning to be someone else. From an early age, I knew maybe sixth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, I knew I was attracted to boys and girls yet everything that was around me was saying that that was wrong. So from a young age, I learned how to play the part how to get validation through academics, through music, I excelled in music, and trying to be that that good boy, that good little Christian boy to protect other people from knowing this dark secret that I have that I'm gay So being authentic was not anything that came easily to me at a young age, I grew up in Oklahoma. But yeah, I had such a double life towards high school in my early 20s. Before I went to college, I had such a double life from the church friends and the youth group that I was a part of, to some of the other friends that I met. That would show me take me to the gay bars or just show me parts of that scene. Yet I was really, really hesitant about exploring it because what if someone saw me? What if what if I got caught walking in the gay part of town in Tulsa? So learning to be authentic is has been a mystery. For me for so many years.

Coach Maddox  5:50  
You know, I think you have really, really defined it in a manner that is true for so many LGBTQ men, and perhaps women, but you know, this podcast is about man. We, most of us, even there's still people that are still, in this day and age, feeling like they can't be who they really are, for whatever reason, whether it's family or a job or, and we have had to live in authentically. And I think that's why even at years after we've come out, we're still struggling with it, because we had to do it for so long. It's so ingrained in us. And it's hard to make a shift. I think the same thing can be said of, we had to make ourselves invisible. Oh, yeah, you know, to stay safe, we had to make ourselves invisible. And now we have this lifelong habit of making ourselves invisible. And yet, where we're not comfortable being invisible, not really, it's a painful place to be being invisible. While it may be safe, it can be really, really painful. What what, how does that land for you?

Randy Woodring  7:09  
Oh, for sure. You know, being invisible. I learned I have a very vivid memory of being 12 years old, and sitting on a hard ass wooden pew at ClearView Baptist Church in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And the pastor at the time has named Steve James who he was the type of Pastor back in the day that would screen like any thought that was preaching, yeah, maybe you're aware of that type of pastoring or the password, start off, like in a in a low town and then just build and build and build and scream, and then come back down to and then you get to invite Jesus in your heart that type of sermon. Yet the sermon was all about the homosexuals that are destroying the family and the they're destroying the nation. And, and that rhetoric, and I remember sitting there going because I knew what homosexual was at age 12 And I just remember thinking, my life is doomed. My life is doomed. I have to remain invisible. And I did. I did for so many years. And after I left broken I went to college over you Oklahoma Baptist University where in their handbook gets bliss, explicitly stated. Anyone caught in homosexual acts will be expelled. And sure shit my roommate, good friend of mine, still he he was part of something that happened off campus. And the report came back saying it was a gay bashing related thing. And he had to go before the school board and they kicked him out. They kicked him out because he is getting and small school 3000 people and everyone knew we were roommates. So I became even more invisible. And that's when I discovered ecstasy. My senior year in high school, again, I'm sorry, college again, college was invisible. I was the president of my fraternity. I did, I played the role. And I acted the part based on all my years of training on how to be invisible and blend in and how to just blend in because I was afraid to I was gonna get kicked out. So my senior year in college, I discovered ecstasy in the bars of Oklahoma City and fell in love. absolutely fell in love with it. Because it took me away from this double life for at least four or five, hopefully six hours. And I got to just experience bliss and be around people that that cared about me or on the surface at least cared about me and made sure I had water and orange juice and all those yummy things. Yet, looking back it was the beginning part I have a huge downward slide for me, because I didn't know who I was. I don't at all. Graduated, you know, even to this part Maddix that the day of my graduation all my family were in town in Shawnee, Oklahoma, and I was in Oklahoma City partying the night before. I took my last hit of ecstasy 6am and went to my graduation and rolled my ass off through the whole ceremony, walked across the stage, hung out with family went to lunch. I don't remember hardly any of that. But I was so out of it. Because I was, it was the shame. The shame that I can't be myself at all. So for graduation, I didn't want to be myself at all. Shortly after that, I surely like two weeks after graduation, I packed up my stuff. And one of my best friends that still is he lived in Denver and left Oklahoma for good. Wow. Yeah, had to leave it. I landed in Denver for 10 years. And that's where I thought I felt freedom. Yeah, it was completely disguised as a trap. I met all these amazing people and I could be so gay. And so who I am, I had little radio show that I was branded with an eye and eye for fashion, just as gay, gay, gay, gay, little soundbite I would always do and. And I thought it was freedom. I get to be myself. In the process, I met a large group of friends who loved me and accept me just as I am. Yeah, who also did copious amounts of drugs. So I began quickly infusing this the start here in Oklahoma City into Denver into a bigger pond, and fell right in sync with it. Every weekend for years, probably a good nine years was focused on what am I wearing to the club? And do we have our drugs? Where's the after party? That was my life. And I noticed it thinking, My life thinking, yeah, in denial. At the same time, I discovered the world of BDSM. And I got really heavy into BDSM because of drugs, especially when crystal meth started entering the picture. And I could see exactly why I grew up in a household with my father who was ex military. very stern, emotionless, and he used to spank me all the time. And in fact, I still have the paddle he used as an shokudo. Report. My kitchen. I repurposed it. So the paddle?

Coach Maddox  12:57  
Yes. That's, it's first of all, it's great. And it's hysterical. Natalie, he beat your butt with. Yeah,

Randy Woodring  13:07  
right. My first punishment with it was I had to sand it. He made it he found a piece of wood in his garage, and he carved out this paddle. I had to sand it. And over the years, he would always do that classic. I'm doing this because I love you. I'm paddling you because I love you. And I would be just a boy, teenager just being just being a young person. And I got spankings for so many things. Over time, when I was in Denver, I began linking this concept of pain getting hit with love. I met some people in Denver that exactly did that are our sessions, if you would call it that involved, letting guys beat the shit out of me. Because they love me that that to me made sense at the time. And I kind of thrived in that community for several years before I realized what I was doing. I was just reenacting the physical pain with with love, or at least but

Coach Maddox  14:22  
what was it that finally brought you to that place of awareness to realize what was actually happening?

Randy Woodring  14:31  
Toward the last year I was in Denver about 2004. I started doing and I lost several jobs in the process because I was really into math. Really, really deep into math as well. Last time jobs was really broke. had to live with friends that kind of story. And I I had a moment in Denver being the beauty facility it is I do remember going to the mountains for a weekend. And I just lost start crying and knew like something needed to shift. So I decided to leave the site leave at the time my mom was going through some major back situations, surgeries. So I moved from Denver back to Oklahoma for short periods take care of her while my dad ran a business. And that lasted for about a year. And in the process, my father and I just continued to do this class and classroom classroom clash so much that I moved to the bottom of the earth Botamo Yankee chili for for about a year to get away from all of it. Which brings me to another part, a very important part of my stories, my relationship with my father.

Coach Maddox  15:55  
Yeah, I know, that's been we've had many conversations about that. I know that's a significant part of your process.

Randy Woodring  16:05  
My mom had died 11 years ago, actually 11 years ago, this past Friday. And once she passed away, I I just she was my, she was my rock, right? A lot of gay boys are mamas are like this. And she was my rock for 40 years. And once she passed away, I noticed I was starting to want to get that same emotional connection with her from my father. And I just realized that that was impossible. Again, my father's ex military, he has, from a generation that all that was important he grew up was was the military and making babies. And he does, he does not know how to express his emotions at all. And through the years, I would try to engage him in the conversation about me being gay. And he would always shut it down with the Bible. The Bible says the Bible says the Bible says it was impossible to have conversation with him on what it meant for him to have a gay son. So here comes that people pleasing trying to get emotional crumbs from him. And over 11 years, actually, the last three years, I realized, what am I doing? What am I doing, it's like, it's like, going to a well for something to drink, that's bone dry. And I keep trying to get something and drink out of it. And there's just nothing in it. Nothing in it. And I finally got to a place where I wrote him a long letter, and to have a discussion about this. And he refused to have a discussion after I wrote it. I wanted to get all my thoughts down and then talk to him about that he just would, he refused. So I got to a place Maddix where I realized a big another lesson I've been doing in my life is chasing, chasing after people who I thought if I showed them enough of this life, if I spend x amount of dollars on them, or if I did went out of my way for this, that I can somehow get that, that recognition, that validation. And a big lesson again, was learning how to stop chasing people who don't want to be in my life. Right? For example, my father and my sister and brother in law, all religious base, yet they just I felt like I had to insert my Life in Pieces whenever I could, throughout the years. And it was always shut down. As long as I didn't talk about me and my life, and what it meant to be a successful business person in the gay community. Sounds we did not talk about any of that. conversations were good. The moment I brought it up

Coach Maddox  19:08  
in an hour, stirring the pot, so to speak, you couldn't bring any of yourself to the table to the conversation. You know, you spoke a few minutes ago about really making efforts to really explain to your dad who you are, and, you know, I I think that's a point that I kind of want to acknowledge you for. And I mean, it didn't land the way you wanted it to and it didn't have an outcome. But I think there is a place in here where you have to celebrate you. You have to celebrate you where you stood up and you said this is who I am whether he got it or not. You had the courage, the hutzpah, the balls, whatever you want to call it to have those conversations with him, even though they didn't land well, and they continued to not land well, and you didn't give up, you kept trying for an extended period of time. And then of course, the lesson was, you know, I'm beating my head up against a brick wall. And, you know, why am I why am I doing this, but, you know, you've gone the extra mile. And at this point, you know, you've done everything that you could have possibly done to nurture that relationship with your father, you've done everything you could have possibly done.

Randy Woodring  20:35  
There's still a amount of grief that comes with it in grieving someone that's alive. Grieving the idea of this father son relationship, grieving the fact that I feel he chose a religion over his son. It's been hard, it's really been hard. And like I told you with my drug addiction, since this all happened, since my mom passed away, 2012 I was sober at the time. And when she died, and then after she died, about six months later, I was shooting crystal meth up my arm again, because I just didn't know how to deal with that pain. And when I would ever get over the years, I would go to my father, trying to get some emotional comfort, trying to get some love. And I was always met with resistance. And I have journal entries where I would come back from visits from him in Oklahoma and use as it was that rejection smack in my face of you are not enough. So it took it was a process, the drugs are not the issue, right? My therapist told me a long time ago, Randy, you don't have a problem with crystal meth at all. You have a problem with rejection, you have a problem with being unheard, and unrecognized. And you have a problem with not knowing how to validate yourself. So what do we do?

Coach Maddox  22:03  
We have crystal meth is the symptom.

Randy Woodring  22:06  
And we will all find something that's huge, we'll find something to attach to, if we'd have that deficit. So it might be food or gambling or shopping or pornography. I mean, every thing is different. In my line of work, I see that people will find something to latch on to if they don't know how to properly validate themselves

Coach Maddox  22:28  
a way to avoid. Yes. I mean, it can show up absolutely anywhere in my younger years, it showed up in a full time party. You know, I never was a drug abuser. But I certainly abused alcohol. And I had this social life where there was a party every waking moment. If I wasn't at work, and I wasn't at home asleep, I was at a party. And was it fun? Yes, it was a lot of fun. But at the same time, it was avoiding all the things that I just didn't want to address or looking at the parts of me that I didn't want to face. And if there's a little burn in it,

Randy Woodring  23:12  
yeah, it's a lack of meaning.

Coach Maddox  23:16  
Exactly.

Randy Woodring  23:17  
In that those kind of things.

Coach Maddox  23:18  
I mean, I think that sex is a big thing in our community. You know, we run to sex, and we use sex to avoid all the things. And I love that you you brought that up, because that meaning because there was a point in my life where I realized that I just could not even for a minute continue to use meaningless sex to avoid me or what I didn't want to look at about me. It just, I went through a period of many years where I had zero sex because I just could not do the meaningless thing any longer. Just I just couldn't do it. You know? And I thought, well, maybe I'll just never have sex ever again. Because I just can't bring myself to so you'll see yes, I think you brought bring out a really valid point. When our lives lack meaning we'll find something to avoid that feeling of no no mean that meaningless it's it's, it's painful. Yeah.

Randy Woodring  24:25  
I'm glad you brought up sex too, or we're talking about sex because I see that in my life. There was this fusion over time again, earlier I said the love and pain and then here comes drugs in the next then it becomes a triangle of in order to have sex and need to drugs and in order to have and when I would do drugs I felt I felt disconnected yet at the same time. My Psyche was searching for connection. Validation. Oh, if this guy's into me, if this guy it wants to come over then that says something about myself. No matter what if I paid for the drugs, if I paid for the hotel room, whatever it was didn't matter, as it was this transactional exchange that I was making for false connection?

Coach Maddox  25:12  
Yes, I remember it. Well, if I can pick up a hot guy, that must mean something good about me. Yeah. Yeah, I remember it well.

Randy Woodring  25:23  
The biggest part that I'm taking away now from my life is, and even currently, in the last four, six months, looking at all my relationships, and weeding out the people that just don't support me, I learned to stop shrinking myself into places that I no longer fit.

Coach Maddox  25:45  
Relationships. Say that again, that is what you just said is so powerful, we say that again.

Randy Woodring  25:52  
Yeah. I learned to stop shrinking myself into places I no longer fit. So with the drugs, I would be, gosh, I would be sober for a while and get triggered and not know how to deal with the trigger. And go down that spiral to places and people that were on just a lesser frequency, a lesser level of life. And I realized, like, I don't fit in that world anymore. I don't fit in chasing after people for emotional connection. I don't have to chase after my family for them to acknowledge and recognize me, I don't fit there anymore.

Coach Maddox  26:35  
What have you learned about validation,

Randy Woodring  26:40  
it's harder, it may be harder to put into practice in it than it sounds. For me, validation is completely internal. And I think we do as humans need a slice of the external, like you're doing great at your job, or you're a wonderful boyfriend or partner, we do need a slice of that external to let us know we're on track. The bigger part, the bulk of it is internal of knowing that I don't have to prove myself based on the salary I have or be in a relationship and being the sole provider. I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that i i can validate myself and knowing what this is my life and what I'm accomplishing for my community. And what I want to continue to do for my community is based on my own drive, and my own purpose to take what I've learned from people and situations. And to turn it around for many people.

Coach Maddox  27:43  
You know, I would, I would love to hear your take on this or how you may experience this similar or different. For me, when I realized that I was searching for that external validation from everybody around me. And the more I searched for it, the more elusive it became. Like it was just I very rarely ever got the validation that I was seeking. And when I finally had that big shift in consciousness, that aha moment where I realized I was looking for love and all the wrong places, I was looking for validation in all the wrong places that if it was ever going to be meaningful validation, it had to come from me. And when I when I finally decided to validate myself, almost immediately, it began to come from all around me, I began to get validation from others all around me. But it never came until I could give it to myself. First. It's crazy how that works. I always feel like that validation thing. We're trying to fill a hole inside of ourselves. And that hole is a bottomless pit. And there is no amount of external validation that can ever fill it. So we get a little bit and we think, Oh, that felt good. And so we got to get more you can see this all over social media, especially in our community. You know, any group you're in any gay group you're in, the boys are posting shirtless photos of themselves trying to get this validation. And it's a bottomless pit. It's a hole that can never be filled. Until you learn to validate yourself, and then suddenly, that whole can be filled. are you how are you? How are you resonating with what I'm saying based on your experience that you're sharing with me?

Randy Woodring  29:45  
Yeah, too. As a therapist. You're hitting on something so important. I work with probably 98% of the queer community. In my work. Maybe 97 Somewhere mostly all I work with queer people. And one of the questions I will always ask is, do you like yourself? And then followed by Do you love yourself? And you would be surprised Max the number of people who say no, I don't like myself, I don't love myself. And I think as gay men we have, we have a lot of us that have grown up in something similar, like what I've been in. And it's all varied, right, we all have different stories, which, at the root of it comes down to some of the same principles shame. And I have learned that like as, as a young age in our community, we shelter ourselves, we protect ourselves from the outside world, by becoming cynical by becoming witty by becoming perhaps a little withdrawn from true authenticity. Because we learned that being Being authentic means being harmed.

Coach Maddox  31:01  
Yes, we are most of the time very armored up. Anytime I go into a social setting where there's gay men, I find there's exceptions. But for the most part, the vast majority of them are armored up. Like, they are not going to let you see who they really are, they're not gonna let their guard they are armored up. And it's a really, really difficult place for me

to relate to anyone,

no matter even if I know them, I feel like I'm in a room full of strangers.

Randy Woodring  31:40  
A big turning point for me. And that was 2012, my mom died. And 2013 I was arrested because I had a large amount of crystal meth in my car. And I was also at the time a school teacher. I was a second grade school teacher, teaching math and science. And I again, here's this double life, I had the life of a teacher. And then throughout all the mini breaks, we had, I was a full time drug user. And when that happened, I lost my job as a teacher, obviously. I was still I was in school to be a therapist. So this was kind of a blessing in disguise. Now when I look back on it, but at the time, it wasn't. And that was my rock bottom, so to speak. That's when the shame came face to face with myself on what now Randy? What now? What are you going to do with this mess that you created? And I see like that had to happen for me in order to be where I'm at, for me to go through that. And how I now I'm able to relate with clients on not just on the substance abuse, but the bigger part is how do we live a life that is shame free? And that's a

Coach Maddox  32:58  
really, really powerful question. And it's it's not an easy question to answer. It's a really powerful, you know, I've come to a place in my life where I believe that shame is a choice. We've had a lot of people have tried to shame us enhance shame to us. And, and at the end of the day as an adult.

I can either choose shame, or I can not choose shame.

And it really be will say, Oh, it's not that simple. Well, no, it really is.

Randy Woodring  33:37  
It is and it takes practice. It takes practice. I've had to learn credible awareness.

Coach Maddox  33:43  
Yeah, I've learned

Randy Woodring  33:44  
I had to teach myself over the years of patching those shameful thoughts. Before they spiral down into a where I was just a pile of shit. I had to challenge those thoughts and be like, nope, nope, I'm not thinking that way about myself. Even after some of my horrific benders, and all the shit that would unfold in those things. It would take me a short bit to get back to forgiveness. And realizing that I'm that's not who I am. Those are the behaviors that resulted from my shameful thinking. And just not really caring about myself. It takes consistency I've learned and that can be hard. That can be hard for people, which is a big part of my work is getting people to be consistent in this area.

Coach Maddox  34:35  
You know, I know I've only known you for about four ish years. And even part of that was we were vague acquaintances. It's probably been maybe just in the last year or two that we've gotten closer and gotten to know each other better. But I just want to say even in the short time I've known you, you have come a long way. I just you know, I want to tip my hat to you and acknowledge And thank you for the work you're doing. You know, and the beautiful part of this story is, you're a therapist, and you work with other people to pull their lives together. And people oftentimes think that, you know, in order to do that we we have to have all our own stuff all worked out. Well, I don't really know very many people who have all their stuff all worked out, I just, you know, it's a continuum. It's not black and white. It's not you either do or you don't. It's, it's a life is a process. And I mean, I've heard all my life that so much of the therapy profession, like therapists get into therapy, hoping that being a therapist will help them through some of their unresolved stuff. And I think that there's some truth to that. I also think that yes, and if you play the cards, right, it can totally, I don't know, totally make a difference in your own process. I know for me as a coach, what's going through my mind all the time is, when I'm when I'm in my shit, when I'm in my shit, and I'm struggling, I'm asking myself, How would you coach a client through this right now. And, to me, I kind of got to do what I would have coached them to do are I'm a fucking hypocrite. You know, and since I don't want to be a hypocrite, it being the coach and, and guiding people through their stuff. It really does push me to my edge. To walk my own talk, do you find that to be true as a therapist?

Randy Woodring  36:46  
100% You know, the, the really cool thing is, I have a standing appointment with my own therapist every other week. Because yeah, I got my own stuff. And that helps keep me to separate, you know, clients versus my life. And at the same time, I was trained really well in school on how to do that how to separate people's stories from my own. But yes, we have this thing called transference and countertransference. And, and there's been so many times Maddox, where, what I have gone through recently, I start seeing other clients going through that, and I can take my lessons that I'm picking up from this, and, and give it to them in a different way. I'm very open with with my life, too. In therapy, if people are struggling with drug addiction, I say, hey, been there done that, like this is a get it. Because that that helps that helps in the healing process.

Coach Maddox  37:40  
It does help. And I think what you're describing is not a coincidence, I think there is the universe is at work. When you've got somebody that is going through something you just went through three months ago, it's hot on the heels of you having gone through it, because it's fresh in your mind. But as you know, as a coach were taught, you don't have to have all the answers. You just need to be a few steps on the path ahead of the person that you're coaching. Yeah. I, I think, yes. So many of the people that have been drawn to me for coaching have been people that are going through something that I've gone through. I've come to believe that our most powerful, the people that we can most powerfully serve are the people who have gone through what we've gone through, where the ultimate guide, because we've gone through it and oftentimes gotten at least to some degree to the other side of it.

Randy Woodring  38:50  
I think that's also true in friendships, not just in a therapeutic or coach sense. Being knit, knowing those people in our lives that have gone through something similar, like, in my case, the death of a mother. I understand what that feels like and what that's been like, and I can relate to people on that level. That I think is also another hallmark of authenticity is looking around at the circle of people in our life and ask ourselves that question. Yeah. Can I? Can I be of comfort to that person with what they're going through? Or do I want to avoid it? That's what life's about. We're all wounded healers in some capacity of helping other people. Yes.

Coach Maddox  39:36  
Wow. That term is spot on wounded healers. Yeah, I agree completely. Well, I think I want to backtrack for a minute. I think maybe the audience might like to hear where you are with your dad now. I know where you are. But I think maybe the listeners might like to hear a little bit of that story. He,

Randy Woodring  40:01  
yeah, so it's been one year that I have not spoken to him. So Father's Day was the last holiday, if you will, in the calendar year that I've got through without speaking to him, we got to a place and you know, again, there's this letter thing back and forth. And he wrote me a letter. And the Bible says, the Bible says the Bible says, and kind of turn it around, that I was the problem here and that if and when I am ready to have a relationship with Him, He is ready as well. Yet that kind of version of myself that that I would have to be, isn't something I am anymore. I'm not pretending I don't want to pretend I don't want to exclude or edit parts of my life out.

Coach Maddox  40:54  
So when he said be, he's ready, when you're ready, but you being ready would constitute you having to go back into the closet and eradicate anything gay out of your life in order for him to think you're ready to be in relationship with Him.

Randy Woodring  41:09  
Exactly. So I made a very difficult decision. And I told him, either you accept me the way I am. Or you walk, or you watch me walk away. And I didn't hear anything back after that. So his silence was a really, really loud answer. Yes.

Coach Maddox  41:31  
Yes. You know, I think that I think the very important part of this story is, so many of us believe that because we're a blood relative or their family, that we have to put up with the garbage that we have to put up with the toxicity. I don't believe that's true at all. I don't even a little bit, I would, my parents I that I tested them at one point, you know, and said something similar to what you said, you know, you either accept all of me, or you will, I'm going to walk away and you're never going to see or hear from me ever again. They made, in my opinion, the right choice, but

I could have and would have walked away. I wouldn't have liked it. But there's a point where

we have to put us first nobody is going to fucking take care of us but us, right. And we have to put ourselves first. And there's a lot of people that you know, I'm sure like, Oh, my God, how could you walk away from your father? I applaud you. I know that wasn't easy. But you You made the ultimate move in putting you first.

Right. And it wasn't easy. I know. It wasn't easy. Yeah, it wasn't. But looking back, it was the right thing to do.

Randy Woodring  42:58  
And interesting in that was a year ago. I have always struggled with cravings for math. And I know I always will. It's just it's been that part that fuse in my life that my brain goes to when I hate myself or get really low. I have to say over the last year that is virtually gone. Because I dealt with that trigger. I dealt with years and years of having to fortify myself before I visit my father of getting on the phone with him knowing what topics are safe, and which ones are not. That's gone that Anglet

Coach Maddox  43:38  
once again, this validates that the crystal meth wasn't the problem. It was the symptom. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was the symptom. And you have eradicated the cause. And so the symptom is disappeared. That's pretty powerful.

Randy Woodring  43:59  
That's a big part of my work, too. Is, is getting to that not focusing on symptom, although I think that that has its place to focus on the symptoms. We get once we discover and get to the root of why we do what we do. That's that's the healing. That's how we've learned to cope with life better.

Coach Maddox  44:20  
Right. I would love to hear a little bit about the grieving process. Because I know that even though you You made this decision to take care, have you. You walked away from a toxic relationship with your father. He's still your dad and there's got to be, you know, there's got to be a grief process around that. Can you speak to that?

Randy Woodring  44:45  
Yeah, yeah, it's been it's been tough. For many months. I felt like I was doing something wrong by not talking to him. I had this constant nagging feeling that Oh, Randy, just except the parts of him that you can and ignore the rest, and it's okay have a surface relationship with him. And it was like this, like I was doing something wrong by, by me standing up for myself. And I noticed that theme traveled all the way throughout my life of feeling ashamed of speaking my mind and being heard and seeing that for myself. So the grieving process has, has been that has been looking at, for myself coming to a place for I'm okay. Letting go of that relationship, because it wasn't reciprocal. And it wasn't. It wasn't healthy. And just because like you said earlier, just because it's biological does not mean I must remain in this relationship. Exactly.

Coach Maddox  45:57  
So do you find looking back, I mean, I often think that we let go of something. And I mean, when you stop and look at it for realistically what it was you let go of a man who never accepted you, you let go of a man who had treated you poorly. But I think that what we grieve most is not the reality of what we let go of weak, we grieve for what we held on to for so long that we wanted it to be the grief is not about the father who couldn't accept you. The grief is about the Father that you always wanted to have that would have loved you, nurtured you and accepted you. Does that?

Randy Woodring  46:45  
The idea? Absolutely, absolutely. That resonates 100%. Well, another piece that helped me and maybe this can help your listeners too, is during the grieving process that you know, I went through all the messages so angry and want to just fucky fucky fucky. And what has helped me through the year is whenever I would feel that way, I would say a little something to myself that something would be like, Father, I really should all things good. Just kind of I don't want to hold on to this, I really should all things good. And then I would find a genuine, authentic compliment I can give to him in my mind. He was he was a constant provider, right, growing up, and we never went without. So I would say like, you were a great provider, which would help defuse that hostility that I would feel. And then over the year, I did that more and more until now where it's just neutral. I don't feel anything. And when I do think of him, I wish him well. He got remarried, and he started traveling with his new wife and I just I wish them well. That's beautiful.

Coach Maddox  48:00  
You have found your piece and now you are extending peace to him energetically. Yeah.

Randy Woodring  48:09  
So who knows what the future holds with it. I'm not saying we'll never talk again, because that may happen. But yet for now, it's I got other things to focus on. Yeah, yeah. Yes, you do. Wow.

Coach Maddox  48:29  
Well, as I said earlier, you've come a long way. And I personally am very proud of you. Thank you, Maddox. I appreciate you how to have you and really want to celebrate you. So given the story that you've shared all, you know, all the aspects of it that the dad the the searching for, understand his understanding and being able to live authentically all of the drugs, stuff that you've gone through. What for somebody that's listening, that may be going through some aspects of what you've gone through. If you are going to sum it up, what would your words of wisdom be for, or a person that is in a similar situation?

Randy Woodring  49:18  
First thing that comes to mind, as we must talk about this, whether it's with a therapist, or a spiritual leader, or a best friend, is to be able to talk about the things that hurt us. When we talk about things that are shameful, it takes away the shame, shame loves secrets, for sure. And once I learned that trick of saying, Oh, if I talked about the eight person orgy that I was in that lasted for four days, if I talk about it from a healing perspective, it took the shame away. Yes. And that's what I think is so important for us, especially as gay men is learning to be okay with our shame and to talk about our shame and that that removes the power from it and it gives it back to us.

Coach Maddox  50:02  
It diffuses it in all my life I have. I've studied shadow for many, many years. And you know people always say, Well, what is what is shadow? What does that mean? Shadow is anything that is that we hide, deny or repress. Yeah. And when we hide, deny and repress it grows in strength and power. And when we darkness cannot survive in the light of consciousness. So the minute we start talking about it with another, bring it out into the light of consciousness, its power diminishes and dissipates. So your words of wisdom are brilliant.

Randy Woodring  50:40  
Yeah. And at the same time, I think it's crucially important for us to know who we're sharing our story with. I've come to believe not everybody deserves to know our story, and or there may not be equipped on how to handle our story. Yes, it's met with oh, well, it wasn't that bad. Or at least you have a home. Yeah, the minimizing of it can really damage a person. So knowing who we're talking to, that we would get that that authentic, really is worthy of your story. Yes. That's crucially important. I learned it the hard way. I always tell people learn, and people wouldn't, they wouldn't know what to do with it. And then I would take it personally, like, oh, well, they don't care about me. They don't love me, when in fact, they just, that's not where they are emotionally or know. Or perhaps have the emotional intelligence with what to do with my story.

Coach Maddox  51:34  
You know, that is truly some words of wisdom. You know, pick and choose your confidence, very intentionally and thoughtfully. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  51:43  
Beautiful.

Coach Maddox  51:46  
Well, how about some? Is there anything else you want to add before we before we wrap and move on to rapid fire questions?

Randy Woodring  51:58  
It is possible and doable. To heal from our wounds? I think childhood wounds never go away. Teenage wounds, even trauma just never goes away. What we do learn is how to cope with it better. Yes, and I think that takes consistent work consistently seeking out conversations like this. Seeking out connections like this where there can be that silly. Hey, girl, what's going on kind of conversations all the way down to man, I'm really struggling with this today. Being around people that only encouraged us and want us to excel in life, and not outshine us or belittle us. I think that's at least for me, that's what I have strived to really change my thinking about who I am.

Coach Maddox  52:54  
If people who believe in you absolutely. Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Okay, first question, rapid fire question. What are you most afraid of?

Randy Woodring  53:15  
Wow, that's absolute pause. Because learning to overcome fear is been one of my biggest things here. What am I afraid of? When it comes to romance, I think that's probably what because it's new to me. I have went about romantic relationships and horribly throughout my life because I just didn't know what I myself and what I needed. I was chasing after and engaged in codependent relationships. So I think I'm afraid. Maybe nervous is a better word of it having a long term romantic relationship.

Coach Maddox  53:52  
Can you define what it is about it that, that you're afraid of?

Randy Woodring  53:59  
That someone would take my story, my past my current baggage, so to speak, and be okay with that. I grew up in this world where I had to be perfect on the outside and not show any vulnerability, authenticity and learning how to step into that. Like I said, it's fairly new. So it's daunting. For me it is

Coach Maddox  54:27  
daunting. Yes, it is. You're on the right path, my friend totally on the right path. All right, if you could go back in time and say anything to the younger you. What age would you go to to tell him and what would you tell him?

Randy Woodring  54:48  
I have a visual of my younger self, which is this tattoo. You can see it?

Coach Maddox  54:53  
I can. It's a

Randy Woodring  54:54  
young boy on a Sween going from the trees and little baseball uniform because I grew up playing baseball. I would tell him

I would tell him it's it's okay to be him I would tell him not to

Coach Maddox  55:28  
not to self destruct. So what are you feeling right now? I'm kind of feeling something coming up what's going on with you?

Randy Woodring  55:39  
I look back at my 51 years of life and look at how much of it I've destroyed

and it's not regret. It's a sense of loss still. That I fell into this trap of just self sabotaging and destroying myself for so long. Simply because I didn't learn the fact that I am okay. Just the way I am. Yes, you're beautiful.

Coach Maddox  56:18  
And I feel you right now. I totally feel you right now. Okay, final question. And the big one. What is your superpower? I love this question.

Randy Woodring  56:37  
I like it, too. I think my superpower is being empathetic. I think my another superpower is listening. And maybe this is just my training as a therapist and years of experience with the field of just looking for reasons why people do what they do all behavior serves a purpose, right, wrong or indifferent. And being able to, to understand that and approach people from that understanding and not in a judgmental or therapist point of view. But just in a compassionate point of view, Oh, I get why you're doing what you're doing. That understanding for me, helps me to have better relationships with people that

Coach Maddox  57:28  
fully agree. Human behavior has always fascinated me. And I'm always watching to try to figure out what makes people tick, why they do the things that they do. And you're right, it's not about judging them or making them wrong. It's just about understanding what might be motivating them to be the way they are to do the things that they do so I can operate from that place of compassion. You call that out really, really beautifully. Wow. Love it. Love it, love it. Well, I just want you to know that I have watched you step into a much deeper level of authenticity in the time that I've known you and I just want you to hear that in my eyes. You are an authentic gay man. And you are definitely on the right track and just stay steady. Yeah. You're, you're you're headed in the right direction. It's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story with me and the listeners.

Randy Woodring  58:33  
I appreciate this time. It has really meant a lot to pneumatics it's been an honor

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