Coach Maddox  0:03  
Hello, Justin Mezetin, and welcome to The Authentic Gay Man Podcast.

Justin Mezetin  0:09  
Hey, thanks. Glad to be here. Glad to be here.

Coach Maddox  0:12  
Wow, I know we've been talking about this for a while. So it's good to see your smiling face.

Justin Mezetin  0:19  
Yep, I'm semi excited about this excited about her in many of the episodes. I'm like, I don't know where I'm gonna go. But it's okay. I'm here. I'm open. And I'm ready for this conversation.

Coach Maddox  0:31  
Good, good, good. It's amazing how many men come back to me and tell me sharing your story publicly was something they just didn't even expect it to affect them the way it affected them. Most of them talk about how healing it was. So I hope that will be the case for you, too.

Justin Mezetin  0:46  
Sounds good. here and ready.

Coach Maddox  0:50  
So why don't you tell the listeners how you and I know each other.

Justin Mezetin  0:54  
So recently, I have gotten into coaching. And there is a Facebook group for gay coaches. And I think I saw one of your coaches and cocktails. Online parties happening. So I joined and I've been to a few of those now. And yeah, that's how we really got to know you outside of me hearing your podcast.

Coach Maddox  1:19  
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, um, that's exactly right. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, well, let's jump in. So, you know, the question I asked every guest is, what does it mean to you to be an authentic gay man

Justin Mezetin  1:41  
So, what it means to be an authentic gay man, to me, is knowing yourself deeply enough to express that person, wherever you are. So sort of knowing your strengths and your weaknesses and being okay with that, and being able to sort of navigate the world and navigate sort of communities. As I'm gonna say, as open as possible, but like, productively? Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Maddox  2:20  
Beautiful. Beautiful. Anything else?

Justin Mezetin  2:24  
There is like, sometimes, you know, you know, when you write things down, like, what does it mean to be authentic? And I know, I wrote it down somewhere, but I can't see it. But um, I think that's, that's sort of being able to be who you are, and being okay with the response you get, because you know, who you are and being able to navigate that relationship or that conflict even.

Coach Maddox  2:47  
I agree. I was referred to for me, I was referred to it is bringing Maddox to the party. You know, how many times have I been somewhere where I didn't take Maddox to the party? It was like some other mask or persona that showed up. And so that's how I term it bringing Maddox to the party. All right. Well, let's talk about what you're really here to talk about, which is your life's journey, your story. Question, what what has been the biggest challenge in this lifetime that you've gone through or are continuing to go through?

Justin Mezetin  3:24  
And honestly, it's, it's the name of your podcast, I'm learning how to be authentic and like, live up to that definition that I just gave you. I think about your answer of bringing Maddox to the party. So for me, bringing Justin to the party. So a little bit about me, I grew up in New York City, I'm one of five brothers and the middle. And I grew up as part of the Seventh Day Adventist religious denomination. Yeah, and I was also young and smart. Let's say I graduated high school at like, 14, um, and I went to a lot of Adventist institutions. So when it came to figuring out who Justin was, there was a lot of other examples and or voices and or things. Yeah, external influences that made that question hard for me to answer. Bringing just into the party, based on some of the religious places I've been in, it's like, I don't know, only some parts of you are welcome here are allowed here. Some parts might be bad. So like when it comes to how you bring yourself to most situations, it's who do I need to be in this situation? How do I need to show up? And then being black and I'm from New York, you deal with a lot of it's a very, you see a lot of different types of people. on. So you see people who are different than you who have different types of lives and you and you wonder, like, what's different with that? And then you're also Adventist, which is different from many other Christians. They're like, Oh, what's very different than them to? So there's been a lot of big community spaces that have lots of types of people and then trying to figure out who am I? Who is the gentleman that I get to bring to the party?

Coach Maddox  5:25  
And what was that like, just in being in those expansive groups like that, where you saw so many different people? What was that, like when you were searching for, I guess, what your what your part in or how you fit in? Or did you belong? Or

Justin Mezetin  5:43  
it's it was hard, and like, really easy to feel like an outsider. Because you don't know how the other side

is. My family then have a lot of money growing up. So when you see certain things on TV, like, oh, that's what it means to have money. That's what that's what an allowance is. Allowance is something that people on TV have, not something that we had growing up. So there's this idea of like, no, these people probably have these other lives that are better. And even when it comes to being an Adventist, so like, one of our big things is we celebrate the Sabbath, similar to like Jewish people. So like Friday night and Saturday. So even just that from other Christian types of denominations and people, you're like, we're, you know, we're different. We're doing things on. We're doing church things on Saturday, and then other things on Sunday. So you feel different because you live a different lifestyle than people. And that's okay. Because you're in this community that also does that. And I think, part surely, as I got older, and began to sort of come out to myself, that similarly, it's now even harder, because I'm like, I'm already part of this small group. And now I'm different from that other smoke. So it's, it's been hard sometimes to truly fit in. Where, yeah,

Coach Maddox  7:22  
well, in that that lack of fitting in was on, like, you say, multiple fronts. It wasn't just one, you know, we hear lots of stories about, you know, I felt out of place because I was only the only man a person of color in the room or, or I was the only only gay person and I had to be closeted. But between those two and your religion, it was on every front, wasn't it just kind of feeling like that there was so many things that set you apart?

Justin Mezetin  7:51  
Yeah, yeah. And like, it happens on all those fronts. And then like, when you're in that religion, right, so then it's, you know, maybe I'm not gay, cuz I'm part of this group, and they don't think this is allowed. So how do I fit there? And like, there have been many. And I think, because a lot of those moments have happened, where it's just like, Oh, I'm coming from a very different places in these people. I need to figure out how to manage and navigate the situation safely. Even sometimes, in other certain, now that I'm older, there was some other circumstances that I'm in where sometimes I still ask myself that question. It's like, what do I need to do to failure? You know, can I bring Justin to the party? What version of Justin is allowed here or make sense to being here? And it's, it's definitely a work in progress. Something that I'm, you know, always sort of learning and thinking of? How best to be grounded.

Coach Maddox  9:00  
May I ask how old you are now, Justin?

Justin Mezetin  9:03  
I am 37 Sound spin on? 37 Sometimes I think about that. I'm like, wait, I'm almost 40 Some of these answers some of these questions I probably should have answered and I've got a bunch of nieces and nephews. I'm like, What is family gonna mean for me? Like, what can that look like? When do I start that journey?

Coach Maddox  9:28  
But yeah, the good news is there's no wrong answers. Really. It's It's all up to you.

Justin Mezetin  9:37  
Yeah, I that makes that makes sense. And I agree with that. And that's something I'm trying to learn. And at the same time, what I realized as well, there's, I'm in my quest to be authentic. One of the things that I've had to unlearn is judgment. I feel like there's just a lot of sometimes I think there's judgment on one side, and then curiosity on the other.

Coach Maddox  10:08  
And I mean, coming from other people or your your,

Justin Mezetin  10:12  
some of them, where it's, you know, every situation it's, you know, is this thing good or bad? Should I go this way or that way? More so than whichever way I go? I can be curious. It's okay to go that way. How can I be more curious about my own experience? Or if there's a hard conversation that I want to have? How do I have that conversation? Being curious about myself, instead of being like, well, am I right? Or are you right? Am I wrong? Are you wrong? How do we navigate this? And I think, especially religiously, I just come from this place of there's a right way to be or right way to do things. So it's not about you know, fitting, choosing the best way to live. It's about, okay, what's the best way to live? And then how do I do it that way? Is a lot of the programming that my mind tends to get stuck in?

Coach Maddox  11:07  
Yeah, you know, the listener doesn't have the, the advantage of of seeing your expressions, but I, you know, I were on Zoom, so I can see your facial expressions. And as you talk about, is it good? Is it bad? Is it right? Is it wrong? Your Your face is all like, scrunched up, like you're in pain, you know? And I'm wondering what it would feel like, if the questions weren't, is it good or bad, right or wrong? What if the question was, is it good for me? Or not good for me? Is it right for me or not? Right for me? Is that change the way it feels? If you change the question? Is it good for because the questions were causing you pain? I could see it on your face.

Justin Mezetin  12:01  
Thanks for that insight. Sometimes it's hard to see yourself from within. Is it good for me? Is it right for me? I think it's definitely a little bit better, a little bit better. And I think that it's definitely better. And I think part of the reason or the direction that I think might work better for me is or be more effective for me. Is something like yeah, maybe is it more effective for me? Did that work for you? Like, can we learn because, because sometimes I'm just like, I get stuck in procrastination, because I'm like, well, I need to know. Is it right? For me? Well, it could be maybe it's not right. For me, maybe there's a better thing for me, instead of we can learn through the process, I think,

Coach Maddox  12:57  
Oh, absolutely. Oftentimes, when I'm up against a choice or decision, I will literally ask myself, Is this for my highest good? And that question to me appeals to something inside of me that is, that is greater, if that makes sense. Yeah, you know, I kind of feel like I wonder if sometimes when we're in the right and wrong conversation, we're in our maybe what would be called our, our lower self. And when when we're in the what would serve my highest good, we're in our higher self? It's a totally different it's operating from a different place, perhaps.

Justin Mezetin  13:44  
Yeah, I think that does definitely help. I do think sometimes thinking of the not about wrong or right, or the judgement of it, but just being maybe more intentional. Maybe it's like, what's my intention with this. And if I like my intention, then it's for my good. Even if someone else might say it's bad, but if my intention I'm bringing to it, then maybe that might be a little more, you know, when it

Coach Maddox  14:19  
comes right down to it. Nobody can tell you what's right or wrong for you. But you know, people will try to weave I have people in our lives that have tried to tell us what was best for us parents are notorious for that. So I want to I'd like to back up for a minute, you talked about the influences of the religion, the different aspects of growing up and, and I kind of like to unpack a little bit of that and kind of let you take us on the journey. Because you were talking about growing up now. You're 37 You know, and so there's been this this journey for those years. through adulthood, how have you learned to navigate that? Oh, gee, that religion told me this aspect of me is is bad, or, you know, people that I was exposed to over here told me that I wasn't good because of the color of my skin or the varying different things that you've experienced. I think that I'd love to hear and I think the listeners would get great value out of how you navigated that how you overcame some of those and where you are now, and, and I get that you're kind of still in process. And of course, that's okay. Because we all are you never get too old to be in process. God forbid if we ever arrive, you know, because then what? Yeah.

Justin Mezetin  15:51  
So I guess it's, for a lot of my life, I learned to to be more attentive, to be to be more attentive, and my brain likes to over act likes to do a lot. So and that has been super helpful. Growing up Adventist we'd like we love education, Christian education. So I all of my schooling officially was at an Adventist institution. So I went away to a boarding school. That was Adventist and my college that was Adventist, and when you're in a place that is very, that likes to say they have the truth and knows what's right. It's easy to give the right answer, right, like, you know, how's it going? Fine, XYZ, here's this, here's what we can talk about, here's what's off limits. So sort of just like paying attention to the spaces, and, you know, being house, how safe can I be there. So I think that started when I was going through, and like, I say, being smart, and my brain was active. So I went away to boarding school for high school when I was 12. And I graduated high school at 14. And then went to college. And it wasn't until sort of after college where I think it was my birthday. I just turned 20. And it was my first official day at work. So I went to work and like filled out forms and did all that stuff. And then I came home came back to the dorm closed along campus, and then someone called me, and I was expecting it to be like a birthday call because it's my birthday. And they were like, hey, another friend of ours has a birthday this weekend. Do you want to like donate money to like getting a cake or getting a gift for that person? And I was like, Sure. Sounds good. And I think that was one of those early moments where I was like, Okay, what? Cool, I graduated college, but and I have a job now, but like, what's the rest of life? Um, who are the people that actually see me? And know me? And how do I go about that? So that's sort of what started me more proactively in this queer journey of mine, where it's like, okay, if I know the Adventist people may not accept me for being gay. And most families also Adventists. So I don't know how they're going to take things. How do I go out into the world and like, meet other people? How do I find what it means to be gay? How do I find what it means to make friends outside of this adventus bubble? Um, and in that journey, I think that's probably where a lot of the judgments came more to the surface. The first time I had a friend who was like, Yes, I had bacon on that thing on that burger party was like, how could they had bacon like pork because we don't need any pork because or shellfish or any of that stuff, either. So there was a lot of just like, Oh, they're still cool people, their friends. The first time the first queer

friends that I made. They, they definitely. They really helped my journey. So this is back in 2006.

There are no smartphones. There are no grinders or any other things on your phone. You had to go to apps and sites and one of the things that I did was Craigslist because I use it to look for jobs. So I can also use To see like men seeking men or just like platonic, like strictly platonic connections and stuff. So I put up a post on there things that I put up multiple posts on there, but one of them were people responded in a productive way. You know, so my response was like, Oh, you're looking for friends and stuff. And I saw this post and was talking. So we were just chatting on like, aim or whatever messenger platform back then. And he was talking about a him and his boyfriend, they would watch Project Runway or have like, game nights. And I was like, Oh, we love games. That sounds cool. Project One way not so much, but whatever. And then like, yeah, then Virginia. And you know, sometimes people come over, they watch the game, if it's too late, they'll stay over and there's a futon you could sleep on. And then either later that day, or the next day, they're like, Hey, do you want to go get coffee? Like one of them? Like, do you want to get coffee or something? And I was like, You know what? There was a lot of red flags going up. Like why were they offered me to sleep on a futon? Like, I don't know who these people are. I've never met them, like, sleep on the futon like, what does that really mean? But we like, met in like DuPont Circle here in DC. seemed cool. I was planning to go to Pentagon City Mall to like, get a new work outfit. And they were like, we live by there. I'll go. So while I was shopping, they had to leave. And then that same evening, they like, sent me a message has been like, hey, my boyfriend brought home some like pop eyes, and we're just hanging out at the apartment. It's right around the corner from the mall, if you want to come and join us. So part of me was like, You know what, I guess we're going to do this. Let's go. Like if they're terrible people, at least it says one day, I don't have to like, there's no further investment. So then I head over to where they live. I go in their apartment. And I think the first thing I see is a like an old school entertainment center. And they had every Nintendo system like up to that point, like Nintendo Super Nintendo 64 and a GameCube. And I was like, okay, these might be sort of my people. And they have bias. It was like one, two? Yes, yes. Um, and then like, I met, I met his boyfriend. And they were they were just like, great. People. They're just cool. Gay nerds. Um, and

Coach Maddox  22:25  
that was this your first time to be in the presence of, of other gay men.

Justin Mezetin  22:30  
Not my first time to be in the presence of other gay men. But most of the experiences I had up to that point were either very recently, like at a club that was a team and up because I was still 20 At the time, or people I met through Craigslist, or other types of like, online stuff, or even like high five and friends there. But all of those were more possibly, like date type things and just like weird 20 Like, what do I do? Where do I go? How do I? What do I What are we even talking about? What am I even now? Um, but I think that was the first time I saw like, the gay couple. And someone's sort of offer immediate friendship, where it was just like, Hey, Justin, we're friends now. Because in my mind, all the all the different guards are up all the different things we can shut. Like, who knows? We don't know anything about these people. And, you know, meeting people through the online way. You met a lot of people like yeah, I'm up for friends. And then like, you walk into a situation and like, maybe not. So it's it was definitely the first friends that were just like, hey, we're offering you friendship. No strings attached. And we're actually we're like friendly people that resonate. We we also enjoy Popeyes and like video games, and we do game nights. And since I was like, 20, at the time, it was great to have people who I didn't have to go to a bar to meet. Because, yeah, so there was it was, I think they and that example they gave me, um, is definitely something that helped me grow so much in my journey. I'm just because they were cool. And they were like, nerds and proud of it. They love their games. They love their like Star Wars Star Trek or whatever. Like, they love the things and just went deep in it. And we're also sort of homebody, so we didn't have to go to a bar to like, all the time to figure things out. And I think from them, they've sort of taught me how to be more open, more more friendly to people. And like there were certain friends that I have now who I'm friends with them because some of our friends are Shawna grant. And when I meet some new people Sometimes I'm also like, immediate friendship, I'm gonna be like, like open and nice to this person, because who knows where they can be, they can be another Asana grant or I can be Shawn and grant to them. Because they sort of, were very helpful in my journey. Especially because back then I ended up being through housemates with people from college. So I was housemates with them for like, a year, two years before coming out to them. So it would be hard at times to be in like a gay space, to go to my first Pride event, and then sort of come back home and have to, like, hide on my pride, swag and paraphernalia, because I didn't want them to figure it out. So they were really a safe space. And like, really just helpful on that on that journey.

Coach Maddox  25:55  
Are you still in contact with them?

Justin Mezetin  25:57  
I am, I am, they, they now have a daughter. And they, they don't live in the city anymore. So I tried to go up there while pandemic was hard, but I tried to go up there to like one of the birthdays or like a holiday party. But I still see them online. And it's great. And they have just like the cutest daughter in the world. And it's weird, because you can look at her and she's just like, I'm wearing that stuff and Halloween, like, I look and I'm like, Oh, that's so your parents you are so you're gonna be like the biggest nerd when you grow up. But also, like, you have that freedom to be that nerd. And it's, it's it's beautiful. And like that, that. Yeah, I don't definitely don't see them enough. But, you know, we grow and we change and like their parents now. I did miss them. And I truly thankful, like, appreciative to what they've been on my journey.

Coach Maddox  26:57  
Yeah, I think that's the mark of a good friendship, when you can have your lives changed dramatically and not even see each other much anymore. But when you catch up, and you do see them, you pick up right where you left off.

Justin Mezetin  27:09  
Yeah. And just, yeah, they're just many, many times, especially they're coming, you know, coming out. It's like a little baby gay not knowing anything, not knowing what to do not. I think I went to a gay bar karaoke for my 21st birthday, because they live nearby. And they were like, do you want to go we go? You're 21 Now let's, let's go to Friday's. Um, and, you know, me not even knowing how to drink or what drinking means. And I was like, What should I get? And they're like, I don't, I don't know, drink something that tastes good. I'm like, But what tastes good? You know, how do I do this? And it's, it's definitely been like a really, really good journey to see where I was when I first met them, and sort of where I am now. And yeah, I'm like, it feels good.

Coach Maddox  28:07  
So where are you now?

Justin Mezetin  28:10  
Where am I now? Now, you know, no longer in the closet that that was a long time ago and no longer in the closet to my straight friends and no longer in the closet to family.

And here in DC, I've never really left the area. So I been connected to a lot more queer networks.

And I feel like there's definitely a lot of growth that I've had.

And I'm at a place now where it's like thinking of what, what the next, what the next step is? What? Let me change that. How to go sort of deeper with people. I think it's been easy to connect, generally. But sometimes it's hard to go to that deeper level with people. I think just, yeah.

Coach Maddox  29:22  
What would that look like? If you went deeper? What would that look like for you? Because that could be different for each person. What is going deeper look like for just

Justin Mezetin  29:33  
going deeper for Justin. Use your words and say bringing Justin to the party. And I think that's sort of bringing my fears and hopes which is sometimes the same thing into actual conversation with friends I think as I embarked on this entrepreneurial journey, a lot of it started during the pandemic. So, you know, you sort of stuck at home. But I tend to not talk about stuff like that with with friends. Because I've got certain stories in the back of my mind, are there examples of people who, who've done it in a different way that did not resonate with me? And I think sharing ideas like that of like, here's what I want to see in life. Here's, you know, I I want to be like, yo, let's, what if we had like a vacation place, just as friends, and we just put it together? And like, we can go there, like three times a year? rent it out part of the like, what if like, these next big parts of life? How can I do that with others? That as as I navigate my current and other relationships, being able to sort of bring that out to people to say, this is something I'm struggling with, and not for them to give me an answer of cool, do XYZ, and you'll be good. But we're here with you. We've been there.

Coach Maddox  31:23  
Now you're talking about vulnerability, I was going to ask you about that. But you just described vulnerability, you know, bringing out and talking about the challenges the struggles. In order for us to do that we have to get vulnerable. Now, you talked about going deeper, and I asked about the vulnerability because in my personal experience, the vulnerability is the number one key to deeper.

Justin Mezetin  31:56  
Yeah, and I do struggle with that. I think there's, in the back of my mind. Part of the fair, the part of the judgment, that's there is like, Okay,

if we're gonna go deep, and we set up a situation, how do I create a situation to go deep, right, because I'm gonna save as sometimes, you know, go into showtunes night at the gay bar may not be the place to have that deep conversation. Um, and then I could see myself put up other obstacles to be like, Well, today's not a good day, because it's it's Friday. Maybe next week, we can go deeper. Maybe, you know, if there's like a one on one dinnertime situation. And I and I see. Yeah, allowing myself to be vulnerable is definitely an issue. Something I'm working on.

Coach Maddox  33:05  
But what do you think it is that's holding you back? What's in it? What is it a fear or an anxiety? What's going on inside of you that says, oh, it's Friday? It's not a good day? Yeah,

Justin Mezetin  33:19  
there's I think, what holds me back is

there's the fear there that you can do it wrong. And then I make up a story about what that means for the next step. It's like, okay, if I have this deep conversation with this friend, they are going to say, that's not the friendship I want, and peace out.

Coach Maddox  34:00  
Would that be so bad?

Justin Mezetin  34:07  
Technically, no. And there's that feeling of, but that was the friend that was supposed to work with. So now I have to go find enough I have to go build up. And so there's this idea. And this is a story I'll just keep talking about. And you can see some of the untruths that may happen. Part of the story is, but if it does, if I can't be vulnerable with that person where I think it's possible, then some of these other people were I don't think it's possible. It may not be. It can't happen there either. Is the story that my mind creates. So it's some that's maybe you just don't try unless there's like a obvious strong point, like someone just died or terrible situation happened now I can be vulnerable because now it makes sense.

Coach Maddox  35:21  
Yeah, but those don't come by very often. Hopefully not. Yeah. And so you just kind of made a statement, you know, I just don't put myself in those positions where, you know, I can, can go there can go deep. What? I guess, I guess the what's coming up for me is how's that working for you?

Justin Mezetin  35:52  
Question it I think it works. It on many levels it has worked, or parts of it have worked until that

parts of it helped me deal with my family's situation and live with straight roommates and come out of this Adventist community with not terrible memories with people who

with people who I can see part of their beauty and their love. And I think one of the challenges with that is I haven't had the best examples of vulnerability, let's say in family and other situations. So some of those long term relationships. I'm meeting what they I'm meeting the bar that they set. So I'm not saying it's great, and it's not great. But also right now, I can see that right now. There is a really big hole. There's not a big hole, but there is a desire for more deeper connection. And it's,

Coach Maddox  37:26  
yeah, well, you said it now. But what was coming up for me a minute ago was what I'm hearing that you're not saying is that you're, you're hungry for depth?

Justin Mezetin  37:40  
Yeah. And I think that's that hemisphere, I am looking for more depth. And,

Coach Maddox  37:52  
and is it possible that you're the one that's standing in the way of that

Justin Mezetin  37:57  
depth? It is more than possible? It's probably it's probably, you know, 80%, that.

Coach Maddox  38:12  
So you said something earlier, I want to speak to you, you said you had this brand, you know, and you and you our lives hypothetical, and what if I go deep? And then he says, Oh, that's not the friendship. I wanted any, you know, vacates the premises. You know, I always I've kind of gotten to cry celebrate that now. Like I really celebrate when somebody vacates the premises. I mean, you're you're having a hunger for some depth. And if you were to go deep and they left the premises off, it merely means is that they're just not your people.

Yeah, so we I think we sometimes and I've certainly done this made it about me. Oh, I'm wrong. I'm bad. I'm not likable. I'm not lovable. You know, they vacated the premises. What did I do wrong? But now I can look back and see they vacated the premises. What did I do right. Instead of what did I do wrong? The question is, what did I do? Right. When somebody vacates the premises for whatever reason, they're generally doing us a favor. It's not easy to see it in the moment though.

Justin Mezetin  39:41  
Yeah. And I definitely would not have gone to that question. What did I do? Right?

Coach Maddox  39:59  
Yeah, You know, I find vulnerability to be and I talk about this a lot a polarizer. You know, without a polarizer, you got people that like you, you got people that don't like you, you got people that are somewhere in the middle riding the fence, you know. And oftentimes you don't really know necessarily where they are. But when you openly get vulnerable in your public spaces and your circles of friends, it polarizes that situation. It literally makes people look at you and go, they're either a hell yes. Or they're a Fuck no. And there's not much in between. And you know, where you stand. They either love you, and they want to sit right next to you. Or they scream and running and run in the opposite direction. And that's beautiful. I think, you know, when I finally when it came into view, and I finally figured out the power of vulnerability, oh my god.

Justin Mezetin  41:06  
Yeah, and I see it, and I see it. And I feel like there's, it's, it's, when I think of it, like, I see that and I'm like, Okay, how do I see that for myself? And then part of it, I think, is sort of like going going to the gym, it's like, the first day you go, you you're not going to bench a bunch of weight. And when you say that, like people saying yay, more or Fuck no. Artemi like, thinks like, goes back to like, a time when I was much younger. And there's, there's this element of safety, but like, I need to be safe. There's there's physical safety involved. If the people around you are a footnote here. There is how to you? And then

Coach Maddox  42:05  
yes, there can be you know, so I'm not saying we go out into the world, and we be vulnerable, always anywhere with everyone. No, you know, I think there are those places. You know, do I, my partner and I we walk in public spaces holding hands, doesn't matter where we are, we hold hands. Now. Are there some places that we would opt not to hold hands? Yes, yes. We went. It's been maybe about three months ago. Now. We were at a sister in town, we'd gone to see a place that I'd heard about all my life and never been it's called the stockyards in Fort Worth, Texas. And it was bubbly and it was Bubba land, you know, animals. You know, we're, we're gay. One of us is white, one of us is black. That's a lot of strikes against us, right there and bubble. And, and we, we talked about it, we like we got there. And we looked around and went, Yeah, we held hands for a few minutes. And then but those kinds of thought, Ooh, yeah, this is not feeling comfortable. And we stopped. We start because there is a an element of physical safety. There are places where you don't want to show affection for us in a same sex couple because it wouldn't be safe. But I think that what stops us more often than not, is the non physical safety. Because there's not that many places, or certainly not that many times in my life where I've really felt like, I was under physical danger. Like I felt like something was going to physically happen to me, I was either going to be, you know, murdered or are injured or you know, but it's very, very common to think that people are going to judge me Are people going to make me wrong? Are people going to laugh at me or? And I think the big breakthrough for me came when I realized I had been looking for safety. All out here outside of myself. I'd been looking for safe places and safe people. And then there was this day when I went oh my god, it's not out there. It's in here. I mean, I was looking for it, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find the safe people not really couldn't find the safe places not really occasionally once in a blue moon maybe a little bit. It always seemed to elude me. But then what I had the realization that the safety I saw it was my responsibility, not somebody else's that I had to take charge. I had to create a safe space inside of myself. Oh my God, everything changed. Like the minute I created that, I mean, I took responsibility To You know, there's a little person that lives in the inner child lives in each inside of each one of us. And I knew that when the proverbial shit hit the fan, that I had to be there to look after that little boy that lives inside of me, it's only five years old. And when I when I understood that and found that safe place, then all of a sudden, all the places that I look everywhere for safety, people places, it eluded me. Now all of a sudden, I've created in here and now everywhere I looked, I saw safe places, the safe people. It was bizarre. Does that make sense?

Justin Mezetin  45:37  
It does, it does on an on a few levels. sort of thinking of the Whitney Houston song greatest level. Because there's art in there when she says something like that, like looking for a hero and couldn't find one. And she had to look inside herself. And yeah, I think it's, I think that's part of the reason why, like, it's sort of like a gym, like you have to go out there and do it. You have to build the muscle. You can't mentally

go to the gym. You have to put yourself out there because like you're saying, like

even the friends that I think of. There's no way I could see them saying, fuck now. I'm done with as Justin. I don't I don't see that happening. yet. There's still that fear that's on the inside. And it's more you will never know until you do. You'll never you'll never get until you go.

Coach Maddox  46:47  
Well and the beautiful thing about it is in that moment you find out who your friends really are. Yeah, you know if they're, if they're a fuck, no, they weren't really your friend to begin with. I want to share a little story with you. Last week, or actually what last week it was the week before. Do I didn't I went to Austin for a Brandon Brandon brushy Rashard the, his name's hard to pronounce Brendon Burchard, three day intensive, called growth day, there were 1500 people in the room. And it was high energy, and it was extremely intense. And throughout the three days, he would say, Okay, I want everybody to get in groups of five, pick your five, you know, and you just grabbed five people. Well, four people being one person being grabbed four people. total strangers didn't know Sal. And then he would give us like five questions. He said, Okay, you're gonna have five minutes each. So you know, five times five is 25 minutes, we would have 25 minutes with this little party of five people. And we had five questions to answer. The first group I got in on the first day. I started going through the questions I was first I was the one that said yeah, here you go first. And so I started answering the questions will two of the questions that my answer moved me and made me feel emotional, where I got choked up and like got like glassy eyed, you know, got choked up where I could speak for a minute and kind of my voice cracked. And we went all around, I finished the next person went the next one, all five. And when we ended, all of them were just like, coming up to me and hugging me and putting their arms around me. You know, just, it was like, vulnerability is like, it draws people to us like a moth to flame. But in my experience, now everybody has a different experience. In my experience, it draws the kind of people that I most want to hang out with. Like the vulnerable when I get vulnerable, it brings the right people and it sends the wrong people away. Like magic.

Justin Mezetin  49:11  
Yeah, it I see it, I see it and it's there. And it's like it's that it's like that it's that

Coach Maddox  49:24  
it's it's like a nebulous cloud. You can see it up there, but you can't reach up and grab it.

Justin Mezetin  49:30  
Although it's like that or it's like it's like, you know, the idea of like the hero's journey and like, you know, you're invited to go on this thing and sometimes the other person is like, No, I don't want to do it. I want to I don't want to do it. You see like, sometimes where I am or take you know what I don't I don't want to go there but also I think that is the next Step.

Coach Maddox  50:01  
So let me ask this, how do you respond? When somebody gets vulnerable in your presence? They have a moment where they're sharing something that's just cracking them wide open, or, or they tear up and they cry in your presence. How does that affect you?

Justin Mezetin  50:22  
More recently, I've sort of learned to try and stay as present as possible to be there for them. Right to not try to solve or jump in and fix. I, that used to be me. Oh, you said something. You seem sad. How do we fix this, uh, you don't have to be have feelings anymore. But now, bias. And working towards being more being there. Like? The easiest way for me to think about it is to think of like my nieces and nephews to be like, okay, they have an issue. How would I be there with them? And so just being there and listening and like, I get closer, I want to understand and allow and be there.

Coach Maddox  51:21  
So am I hearing you say that when somebody gets vulnerable in your presence, it draws you in?

Justin Mezetin  51:26  
Oh, well, yeah, that's what closer means. Yep. There you go.

Coach Maddox  51:33  
Yep, there you go. And it's pretty much across the board. Most of the time. There's a rare exception. You know, the first date I had with Dwight, we were sitting at the restaurant. We had been in Egypt, we just met, we'd known each other for all of five minutes. We met at the restaurant for the first time we sat down, they gave us a menu. And five minutes in, I asked a question, or I don't remember exactly what it was. And he got this distressed look at his face. And I said, are you okay? And he goes, You know, I'm just having a moment and tears started rolling down his face. And like you, I didn't try to fix him. I reached across and I put my hand on top of his hand and I said, it's okay. And I just sat there with him and held my hand on top of his hand. I cried. And I gotta tell you. That was the moment I fell in love with him. That was the moment and only I've been to that moment. I didn't even believe in love at first sight. But he had me in that moment. He drew me in with that raw vulnerability in the first five minutes. He didn't plan that he didn't see it coming. He was surprised when it came up. And I was like, oh my god, this is so attractive. This is just so appealing and so attractive. Because I'll tell you what, man in general, we don't show much emotion. But you know, oh, gay man, or got a second dose of that man. They'd rather die than cry in front of somebody. Yep. So here's this man, just letting it flow right in front of me. I mean, we were we were like, an instant thing. It was like, wow. And in another few days, we celebrate a year. That's been a year ago.

Justin Mezetin  53:39  
Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's definitely it's Yeah, I think the the sometimes it's for me thinking of how to make it you know, I just want like a nice little I'm on like, an on ramp is what my mind says, like, I'm the I'm the person who gets into a pool like, toes at a time. Which isn't always the best way to get into a pool. It's actually not the best way.

Coach Maddox  54:20  
But you know, if it's your way, it's your way and that's okay.

Justin Mezetin  54:25  
Yeah, it takes time, but I get there. And if I can get into a cold pool, I can. I can be vulnerable.

Coach Maddox  54:38  
You know, I have a I have a friend. We've been knowing each other now for we met in March of 2019. So I guess in 24, will be five years friends. And we were having this conversation about vulnerability. And he could see devalue, he loved how he could watch me get vulnerable. He was, he could see it. But he couldn't do it, he couldn't do it, I just kept holding space for him, holding space for him, holding space for him. And this last year New Year's boyfriend that he had been seeing for quite some time, broke up with him on New Year's Eve. And he called me, I don't know, a day or two later. And we were on a zoom call, we always get on Zoom. And he started crying. He had his breakthrough. I mean, he had his breakthrough, it just cracked him wide open, he couldn't hold it back any longer. And he started crying. And his life has been completely different. This year since since he finally had that moment where he had the breakthrough with vulnerability. And he just kept saying, oh my god, I finally get it, I finally get it. I know why you've been holding space for me and why you've been encouraging me, I finally get it. It's any any, we talk about it still, almost every time we get we zoom every Friday, he lives in a different country, and we zoom every Friday. And every single conversation at some point will have at least some aspect where we have some period of the conversation where we'll talk about vulnerability, because it's such a important component of the life we really want to live. You You know you want to live it or you wouldn't be you know, yearning and having this conversation. And, you know, everything happens in its own time.

Justin Mezetin  56:42  
Yeah. And that's, that's yeah, I'm always like, toss between those two things. Everything happens in its own time. And you also have the opportunity to make a decision now. And sometimes just learning to be okay with it. And

Coach Maddox  57:08  
I ask her a deeply probing question for him. So here we are, we're on this podcast talking about your life. And this would be if you're going to jump into the pool all at once the the ultimate opportunity, but if you were going to right now, in the moment talking to me, go into vulnerability, you know, I'm not going to judge you or leave the room because I'm an advocate. I'm I'm holding space for you. What would you say? What would you do? What would it look like? If you were gonna get vulnerable right now?

Justin Mezetin  57:48  
I really get vulnerable right now. And he needs something to ground me because my mind goes in all different directions

Yeah, I need it's, I just need something to hold on to some like a focusing. Focusing

Coach Maddox  58:23  
You mean like something to think about as you do to like,

Justin Mezetin  58:27  
if you were to be vulnerable right now go. I'm not like my mind is I don't know, like, how do I answer what is?

Coach Maddox  58:34  
Well, maybe maybe I can ask another question that will help a little bit and and it's okay to say yeah, no, I'm not ready. Absolutely. Okay to say I'm not ready. What is something that perhaps you have a great deal of shame about? You carried it for a long time. You never talk about it. You never told anybody but it's something that you carry. It's a weight on your back that you carry something that happened maybe in childhood or, or young adulthood that you just feel shame about. So you never talk about it. And nobody in your life knows. We all have that meal somewhere in there. We all have that. And it's okay to say yeah, not ready to go there. Maddox.

Justin Mezetin  59:27  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there are a couple of things and part of it I'm not ready to go there. And I guess one of the things that I haven't really dealt with or Don thinks about is sort of losing losing my mom. I think she passed away the same year I came out two straight people don't The same year I came out to my coat my housemates.

Coach Maddox  1:00:05  
I was worried

Justin Mezetin  1:00:07  
I was 22. So yeah, because 15 years ago now. And I guess part of the challenge was so that was 22. And let's say I started going away to school when I was 12. So a lot of those teenage all of those teenage years were not under the same roof, as her. So I think there's a lot of or there's some level of guilt there about not being able to see her as a person. And her not being able to see me as like a person in those in those years. And you know, those are years that we don't, we don't get back. And when I think about her, I think of I can think of the last times I saw her and around the last maybe the last 16 months of her life, she got progressively worse, so there wasn't a lot of good communication. Potential. And I guess there's a part of me that's like, who? What would it have been like to have an adult conversation with my mom? What would it have been like to like? hear her speak about the fears and hopes she had for her life? And for me to share my own

Coach Maddox  1:01:51  
but it What are you feeling as you think about that memory.

Justin Mezetin  1:01:57  
Um, there's the little bit of little bit of guilt there. Like I sort of could have been more present could have wrote back home on

Coach Maddox  1:02:13  
what's on the other side of the guilt

Justin Mezetin  1:02:16  
of the sadness and grief that there are you know, some missed opportunities. And this person who birthed me and

Coach Maddox  1:02:35  
and when you came out to her was she accepting,

Justin Mezetin  1:02:39  
I was not I did not come out to her. Think I did not come out to her. By then she was like, let's see, I came out October 2008. She passed in December 2008. And even I think the last time I saw her on the holidays, but before that, there was her birthday in May. And I think I was up there. And it was either may or December. And I was like that you just are used like like yeah, I'm here like how school like I graduated, like really? Remember and like her mind. She was losing some of her memories

and I was in my old coming out process. And I guess you know, you just never things did not align in a way where even if I did have that conversation with her I don't know if Yeah, would have been there for it. And yeah, I guess there's there's some sadness there. And you know, some opportunities where I wasn't around loves because I was a teenager in college and what are you gonna do? I have to be responsible about life.

Coach Maddox  1:04:25  
Does it feel vulnerable talking about this?

Justin Mezetin  1:04:29  
It does. It does. I don't think I've said most of those words. I would say that which you know, with most people, including brothers.

Coach Maddox  1:04:42  
So in that place of vulnerability, talking about the memory in your mom, or are you talking about the way it feels? Are you actually feeling the way it feels?

Justin Mezetin  1:04:59  
Um, Talking about the way it feels for sure. And there are some levels of feeling the way it feels.

Coach Maddox  1:05:10  
Would it feel more vulnerable to go into those feelings, to allow yourself to feel those feelings? Right here in the present moment?

Justin Mezetin  1:05:23  
It could. And I guess part that's part of this. Sometimes I struggle with feeling the feelings. I struggle with feeling the feelings, and I don't.

Coach Maddox  1:05:43  
I suspect that's a safety thing. And I, and I maybe just like to suggest and propose that you kind of think about that. And I don't mean that you feel unsafe with me. I think it's more that you haven't maybe created that safe space inside of you can't know that for sure. It's just a hypothetical.

Justin Mezetin  1:06:16  
I guess. Sometimes people say words in ways that resonate a little more. And with you saying, creating that safe space inside of you. That and that heard those words in this context. Before,

Coach Maddox  1:06:38  
I think that may be your key to finding your vulnerability. And being able to express your vulnerability, you're wanting to go deeper, you're hungry for it. But you haven't yet created that safe place that allows you to get vulnerable. Once again, hypothetical. It's like the shoe fits or it doesn't.

Justin Mezetin  1:07:01  
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess as as life goes on, and continues, and I learned different books and hair, different teachers, and people inspire me so often, you know, someone says something slightly different than the way everybody else has said it before. And it's like, oh, that's what they meant. Because I think sometimes when it comes to, you know, people saying, feel your feelings. Heard that hear that a lot more recently. It's like,

Coach Maddox  1:07:37  
what does that mean? Like,

Justin Mezetin  1:07:39  
how do I how do I? How do I feel? I don't know. But I think creating that safe space inside to feel your feelings, creating that safety there. I think that adds a new lens and perspective.

Coach Maddox  1:07:57  
Are you familiar with inner child work?

Justin Mezetin  1:08:01  
A little bit, a little bit.

Coach Maddox  1:08:03  
There are a variety of books, if you just go to Amazon and search, there's some really good stuff out there. But I I personally think inner child work is the key to so much of our inner world and, and dealing with our past and, and our, our traumas, you know, we all have a wounded child that lives inside of us. And when we can tend to that child's wounds, the way we would actually tend to a real child's wounds. healing takes place. The inner child work has been super powerful. And in my experience for me, you know, different people resonate with different concepts. But it's been pretty powerful for me just to realize that until the day I take my last breath, there will always be a five year old child living inside of me and that he's, you know, he's helpless and completely dependent and looking to me to keep him safe to take care of him and keep him safe. Because he's not capable of doing that for himself.

Justin Mezetin  1:09:23  
Yeah, I guess I guess. Is there because my mind wants to say is how did you do that? What was what answer worked for you or process or something in that direction?

Coach Maddox  1:09:47  
You know, I just all pile up in my bed by myself. And I'll just pretend that he's five years old just laying on the bed right next to me. And I'll talk to him. I'll tell him all the things that I know a five year old needs to hear when they're hurting, comfort him.

I tell him that I'll do anything it takes to protect him, I won't let anything bad happened to him. I literally pretend I got a small child that I'm responsible for. You know, if you were a father, and you had a five year old, there'd be certain things that you'd know to do to comfort them to, to keep them safe. You know, you wouldn't you, you just do what it took. And yet, we all have a five year old living inside of us that we don't tend to the way we would tend a real child. We make it a little more complex than it that it has to be, you know, when I'm, when I'm feeling down and out, I'll pile up in my bed and I'll put my hands on myself and I'll pet on myself just the way I would if there was somebody next to me that I love deeply. I caress myself, and I tell myself, it's okay, I'm right here and right here with you. It's okay. It's amazing how soothing that is. And it was necessary because I've lived alone a lot of my adult life, I've had relationships, but I've also had long periods of single. And so I had to learn how to do it all I had to, you know, as gay men we're always very aware of, of the sex and masturbation, how we pleasure ourselves. But we don't talk about how we pleasure ourselves with emotional, physical affection that isn't sexual. And I will literally in single times, when there's been nobody to caress my face, and look into my eyes, I will caress my own face and hold a little hand mirror in front of my face and look into my own eyes, I will give to me what I would give to somebody that I was completely in love with. That's, and it's amazing. It's not easy at first looking into your own eyes for a long period of time is not easy at first. When you some people report, they can't do it longer than a minute. It's hard to look away. It's uncomfortable.

Justin Mezetin  1:12:30  
Yeah. Yeah, those are some very tangible things I can try. I can

Coach Maddox  1:12:41  
do. So let's bring kind of full circle because we've gone well over time, which is okay, because this has been really, really rich. What, through our conversation today and the things you've shared and the parts of yourself that you've revisited. What's come to light? Or what do you what are you walking away from this conversation with, that you didn't have when we got on the call?

Justin Mezetin  1:13:09  
Um

definitely think about taking some of these strategies to create that safe space inside. To create that to to create that safe space and trying trying some to create that safe space and sign. So I can show up more vulnerably that sounds like a right correct school answer. But what that means for me is really to ask myself, like what that safe space can look like. Because I I don't know.

Coach Maddox  1:14:05  
You know, what, if you ask that little five year old Justin inside of you, he'll tell you, if you listen, if you ask and you listen, he will tell you. Your I mean, you know your hand and he's you.

Justin Mezetin  1:14:21  
Because, yeah, because I know, I know it's there. And I know that there are friends that I can go to and I can bring something to and they would not turn me away. And I also see nice, I also see how in times past I let the moment go, where there's a moment where I could go further and I don't

Coach Maddox  1:14:47  
so and that's what I'm hearing you say that you're not saying is in that moment you felt that there was they were creating safe space for you but you didn't go there because you weren't yet creating safe space for you.

Justin Mezetin  1:14:59  
That That's exactly what I did not say and something I didn't even think to say. But I do think that's sort of where this is it's knowing creating it. And then I guess trusting in the thing that I've created that I am, because at the end of the day, I do know like, right, like I know, at I live in DC 80% of the time, I am as safe as possible. I am not afraid. And 60% of the people who I would want to have this conversation with, I know that they are good, they would probably be so excited and be like 12 years later, we finally get to have this conversation, Justin.

And yeah, I guess I get to I get to I get to flex that muscle. Yeah, sounds exciting. It is. And yeah, and then the other part of me is like, cool. So if you're gonna do is you're gonna flex that muscle. And then the next day, you're gonna schedule, you're gonna schedule a massage the next day. And then you're gonna flex that muscle. So no matter how it goes, you know, there's a massage on the other side. And there's like this play element. There's this like,

Unknown Speaker  1:16:21  
reward?

Justin Mezetin  1:16:25  
Yep, a little happiness celebration.

Coach Maddox  1:16:27  
Yeah, that sounds amazing. Sounds amazing. Well, this has been an amazing conversation I've loved where you've gone with this. Because what you started off saying, you know, the biggest challenge was being authentic. And, and then we came into the vulnerability piece and, and that, to me, those are two different things, yet they're very, they're very, they work very well, together. They are. They're like cousins. You know, authenticity and vulnerability to me are not exactly the same thing. But they work hand in hand, you can be authentic without being vulnerable. It's really hard to be vulnerable without being authentic. That's my take. So I love your I mean, I think that without you realizing it, you you have gotten vulnerable today. Especially in these last few minutes. You dip your toes into some area, and I think it's always very vulnerable to say, oh, you know, you know, I'm the problem. That's not it's not out there. It's in, it's in here. I'm the one that's holding me back that in itself is a form of vulnerability. So, what do you say you ready for some rapid fire questions?

Justin Mezetin  1:17:48  
Yeah, yeah, let's go for it. I am. Ready.

Coach Maddox  1:17:55  
Okay, so what matters most to you and why?

Justin Mezetin  1:18:12  
Knowing that I made a difference even if that difference is a stupid joke. Because sometimes I think it's it's what's there's so many things I hear from people I see that you never forget. But every so often, there's like, that person for two minutes. We just had like this amazing connection. And it was about the weirdest thing ever. But like, somehow that mattered. And I'll never see them again. But we laughed about it. We had that smile that knowing connection and it was it was good.

Coach Maddox  1:18:58  
I love that. Making a difference. I share that with you. Okay, what has been the most difficult aspect of being a man of color in the LGBTQ community?

Justin Mezetin  1:19:18  
That's a hard one.

There is a level there is a level of preference, sometimes racism or bias. And them what makes it worse is when I assumed that, before I know anything about the space, I think there are definitely certain you know Let's be honest, there were definitely certain people who I was like, they would never date me because they only they people who look exactly like them. And then a year or two later, I see them dating someone like me. And I was like, oh, there's that. Or even in my early journey, when I mentioned going on Craigslist and stuff, there was a lot of times it was like, Oh, I've seen the picture not interested anymore. And then people who maybe I did meet up with, and I was still thinking, they're just like these other people. So I didn't give other people a chance. Because I thought I had to earn my myself there. I had to. Okay, fine. I need to be twice as good. I need to be funny and smart and wise, good body, all the things because because I'm different. And that is something that I still am learning. It shows up every so often. But it is that internal part that makes it hard.

Coach Maddox  1:20:59  
So if I'm understanding correctly, it's, it's not so much that others see you that way. It's that you sometimes assume that they see you that way, and then later find out that's not the case at all.

Justin Mezetin  1:21:15  
Yeah, or even if I'm right. I don't bring the full justice to the place. So it's more I didn't show up more because I thought this because like you said, you know, I love I love the idea of a proactive racist, right? If you want to be racist, let me know. And I don't you know, I don't have to save time. That's why you don't laugh at my jokes. It's not because I'm not funny.

Like that's been, that's been hard. And then something else that's almost similar, but a little different is

knowing that sometimes the gay card gets me into doors that are close to the black card. And that that was something that I've learned more just living in cities and being in in places where things mix. It's some of these people might see me differently if I didn't have that rainbow headband on. And sometimes a seeing that, that that difference is is Life is messy, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Maddox  1:22:30  
So many, yes. Come at us from all all sides. Wow. I love your answer, though. That was you said, wow, hard question. And you just you answered it beautifully. I love it. Okay, so many years from now. You're dead. And you are a ghost. At your own funeral. You're you know, you're hovering above the room, and you're watching everybody there. And all of of your your gay friends are sitting in the first few rows. What is it that you hope? They will say about you once you're gone? Or what is it that you think they would say about you? Maybe that's a better one. Let's go there. What would your friends say about you after you've expired and they're at your funeral?

Justin Mezetin  1:23:33  
If it wasn't for Justin, I would hate three of you in that front row.

But Justin brought us together in joy and laughter. And we was able to create this connection that I've enjoyed both the stupid jokes, but also the people he put me in contact with, like the community that we built together. That didn't make sense. It doesn't make sense in some ways. But Justin somehow brought y'all together.

Coach Maddox  1:24:12  
That's beautiful chest and so you're a connector. Yeah. Yeah, we share that. I love connecting people. That's awesome. All right. I love it. This was amazing. How do you feel about our conversation today?

Justin Mezetin  1:24:28  
Well, I feel I feel I feel good. I feel good. And I I feel good. I feel inspired. And one of my mentors, says this thing like hey, we're all perfect, whole and complete. And we're already doing the things that we want to do more of. We're just not appreciating it. And I think by being able to be here with you, and tap in Move to sharing parts that I don't usually share and being vulnerability like it I'm still alive and that it's possible to take this feeling and take this experience and hopefully not hopefully, and apply it in other areas of my life where it's a little bit more challenging. So thank you for the inspiration motivation and the the mirror that he held up to help me see myself a little more clearly.

Coach Maddox  1:25:35  
Well, thank you for putting your toes in the water and and testing the the vulnerability out a little bit you you did take some steps in that direction today and and I feel very honored that you chose to do that with me.

Justin Mezetin  1:25:52  
You're more than welcome.

Coach Maddox  1:25:55  
Thank you. And I just want you to to know and I mean this you know, I say this most of the time at the end because most everybody comes on here and gets vulnerable. But I definitely see you as an authentic gay man. We all Well, well, we all have we're all in different places on that continuum, but you're on the path. I think that's what's important. Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai