Coach Maddox  0:03  
Hello, David Robertson, and welcome to The Authentic Gay Man Podcast. I am very glad to have you on today.

David Robertson  0:10  
Thank you for welcoming, it's nice to be here.

Coach Maddox  0:13  
Well, let's jump right in. So to tell the listeners how you and I know each other, we don't know each other, we just met about 20 minutes ago. So David heard an episode of the podcast and was intrigued. And so he clicked the via guest button, and here we are. So I'm gonna get to know him as you guys get to know him. So the question that I always lead off with David is, how would you define or what does it mean to you to be an authentic gay man?

David Robertson  0:53  
Well, of course to be true to myself, in this might be a little non politically correct answer. But the way I live in a life as an authentic gay male is to drop the label as gay. Think labels, I don't think I know, labels limit us. Because we create our reality, our circumstance, because of that label.

Coach Maddox  1:26  
I think you're speaking of actually a trend, I think that I'm seeing, especially in the younger generations, there are more and more that are refusing to put that label or they're choosing a label that encompasses a lot more that has a lot broader aspect to it. So I don't I don't think it's politically incorrect at all. In fact, I would say, you know, you're, you're probably maybe a little bit ahead of your own time. So yeah, no, I love it. I mean, I see sometimes the value of labels. And then I also see, it's kind of a double edged sword, don't you think there's the there's the value, and then there's the limitation all at the same time?

David Robertson  2:10  
Well, and I think, what do people expect of life because of that label? What circumstances do they begin to attract? Because of that label? You know, I'm a therapist, a counselor, and getting rid of those labels is enormously important and healing. Because a lot of people, especially the older generations, you know, being gay, they expected to be beaten up. discriminate, not accepted. 

Coach Maddox  2:49  
Yeah, that's very true. You know, I mean, I'm part of the older generation. And that's not my experience at all. But I certainly can look at around me and see exactly what you're talking about. So yeah, great, great answer. Thank you for that. So to to our big topic today. What is what has been your biggest challenge in life that you maybe have gotten through and maybe are still going through?

David Robertson  3:18  
Probably my biggest opportunity was overcoming a brutal childhood. You name the abuse, I went through it. Sexual, mental, emotional, physical. It wasn't just at home, it was at school. It was, it seemed seemingly never ended. First time I commit, tried to commit suicide, I was 10 years old. But two more attempts before I was 19. Or failed, which brought up even more sense of being a failure.

Coach Maddox  4:01  
Wow, that's a really important point you just made there. I don't think I've ever quite thought of it like that. There have been several men as guests on the podcast that I've talked about multiple suicide attempts. But you're the first person that's ever called out that, wow, I even failed at trying to kill myself. And that just adds on to that. More deepens that feeling of failure and and probably not enoughness.

David Robertson  4:41  
I'm drawing a blank. Ask me a question. Well,

Coach Maddox  4:48  
I guess I'm curious to know when and how that how you do that to close. When did it stop? You said it seemingly never ended, but And I understand that precisely because I experienced some of what you're talking about.

David Robertson  5:10  
After the last attempt at 19 years old, I ended up in a psych hospital. And the really unusual thing about that story is, it's the first night I was there. It's the first night I ever felt safe in my life. So my healing began there, because I was out of the environment where the abuse was seemingly never stopping. And my recovery began there. Then I really got onto the spiritual path, and began to understand explore, self responsibility. You know, I began using all of us are children of God. And be and being children of God, we naturally inherit God's skills and abilities of wisdom, love and forgiveness. And I begin to tune in to those natural spiritual abilities if you will, and begin to use them. And that's what allowed me to really start healing. I like to define self responsibility as responding to life with your divine abilities of your wisdom, love and forgiveness. rather than reacting to life with anger, fear, feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, unworthiness, or judgment. It is a choice.

Coach Maddox  6:51  
So David, did you discover what you're talking about while in the psych ward?

David Robertson  6:58  
No, my spiritual journey actually started at eight years old with a near death experience. But growing up in a small Appalachian town, there was no one to talk to, or at least I thought that was the truth. So I kept all of that hidden. You know, I would wake up in the middle of the night and there would be a dead person sitting on the foot of my bed. I'll never forget the first time it happened. I woke up in the middle of the night and there was a lady sitting there and I knew her. She was my mother's same seamstress. She was from Scotland. And I asked her what she was doing there. I felt she was alive. And we had some kind of conversation and I came to the realization that she had died. The next morning at breakfast, the phone ring, and before mom picked it up to answer it. I said to her. That's Robbie Joe Scruggs calling to tell you that Phyllis garden died last night. I just began to have experiences be tuned in, as it were, to unseen worlds.

Coach Maddox  8:17  
Was that frightening at first?

David Robertson  8:23  
Not frightening. Until I began to get reactions from people and be ridiculed for it or punished for it. That's when I really decided to just keep my mouth shut.

After I got out of the psych Hospital, a friend of mine sent me to see a psychic. And she happened to be a really good one. Thank God. And she's the one who helped me finally start to understand what was going on with me. When I was nine years old, my grandmother, my grandmother was in spirit or on the other side. And she began to teach me music. She began to teach me piano from the other side. That was my, one of my first real connections with the afterlife. As she told me Well, I mean, I learned how to play.

Coach Maddox  9:25  
And how did your family explain that to you with no apparent lessons? You're suddenly playing the piano?

David Robertson  9:38  
I don't I don't know that they did. It was just accepted. I come from a family of musicians and I guess they just thought it was the natural talent showing up but I can literally feel her. Come and sit next to me on the bench and begin to instruct me

Coach Maddox  10:00  
Okay, well, I mean, you can seek were stories like that would make people around you rather uncomfortable.

David Robertson  10:07  
We had staff in the house growing up, and I can remember vividly, several times the radio would be on the intercom system in the house, and I would announce which song was coming on the radio next. And then it would. And the staff used to David started to avoid me. Steer course around me. Yeah. And so I learned rather quickly just keep my mouth shut. But it's very common for children who are abused, to develop their empathic empathetic abilities quickly. And very profoundly, because it becomes a means of surviving. To tune into another person's energy to realize if there was danger coming at you. You began to learn real quick. How to read people,

Coach Maddox  11:08  
huh? Yeah, you're describing me now. I mean, I, I just, yeah, I'm in a relationship that's only a few months old. And my my partner says, Oh, my God, you just read me like, you know, and I'm i? And I'm like, I do?

David Robertson  11:27  
Well, you know, when we. And the truth is, is we're all wired the same. We're all clear, sentient, we're all clairvoyant. We're all clear audience. And Claire, cognizant, those are natural abilities that we inherit as children of God. They're not gifts. God doesn't single anyone out to be a psychic or a medium. That's ridiculous. But it's up to our choosing when we begin to develop those abilities.

Coach Maddox  12:04  
I never thought of it like that. But you're right. I think that we're we all it's all about my navel available to each of us, we have to lean in and develop it.

David Robertson  12:15  
It's, you know, and some of us have developed it to quite a refined degree and other lifetimes. And then there's a moment in life, whether it's childhood, or even in adulthood, where it springs back to the surface, for whatever reason it gets triggered, it comes into play again, might happened in childhood. Yeah. Wow. And I do a lot of teaching and training with other empaths or sensitives. I personally don't like the word psychic, everyone's psychic. And that's one that sometimes people get a swelled hit with that, you know, they think they're extraordinary or special. And that's one of the things I always begin to teach is that, guys, you're not special. Or like everyone else, you're just using some tools that others aren't aware of yet.

Coach Maddox  13:17  
That makes perfect sense.

David Robertson  13:21  
It's, I think, in order to be an empath with integrity, you have to be humble. You have to realize that that other person is truly at the end of the day, a reflection of you. That other person is a part of you. You're no better, no better, no better than or no worse than Yeah. You know what I worked with clients, I see them as perfect whole and complete. I'm helping them heal their own perceptions or their own illusions of their, their brokenness or their wounds. Because those wounds are based in delusions and illusions. They're, they're truly dreams that we have to begin to wake ourselves up from. Yeah,

Coach Maddox  14:20  
I would love to hear a little bit more about your process as you were in the psych ward. You know, and you started to lean into, as you said, this self responsibility. I'd like to just know a little bit more detail about that story and how that unfolded for you and how long it took and you know, just where the significant milestones were.

David Robertson  14:49  
One of the ways I used to see it coming out into the open and it was a definite oh shit moment when it happens, but be in group there. Maybe I would tune into somebody and just kind of lay it all out there. Whatever they were struggling to express or whatever they were hiding, I would just begin to speak about it. And it would be true, it would be accurate. It got to the point, because the hospital I was in, you had a nursing team that observed you all day and charted on your progress every day, or whatever was happening in your day. And the staff started coming to me to ask me what was going on with another patient. They liked my insight. So that's one of the ways I began to see the empathic abilities, revealing themselves. I was lucky enough, early in my 20s, to attract some very wise, gifted spiritual teachers that weren't Flim Flam bullshit artists. They were truly attuned. And they helped me bring spirit into my everyday life and begin to apply. It takes time, no one, I think, steps into their empathic or sensitive abilities and begins to use it with great confidence.

Coach Maddox  16:39  
I know for me for a long time, I didn't even know what it was. I mean, I knew that there was something present. And I knew that I was different than other people. But I had no language for it. And I had no understanding of it. And I don't remember exactly when I begin to kind of connect with that. I mean, for a long time, I knew that I could feel other people's feelings, but I didn't really have a label for it. You know, it could be sitting over coffee, and I'd feel this real rush of feeling coming over the other person I would, I would stop them and say, Wow, you just had this really big rush what's what's going on? Oh, no, I'm fine. And they would just kind of like, blow it off and breeze on? And I would say, No, stop. I know what I felt. What's going on with you right now? What are you feeling? And they slow down for a minute, they think about it, and it'd be kind of like this? Oh, wow. How did you know that? I said, I have no idea how I know that. I just know that. And sometimes it would, you know, they would turn emotional, you know, when they slowed down and actually checked in? It would it would turn emotional. And of course, I would feel all that. But I didn't have a language for it. They would say what, how did you do that? And I said, I don't have a clue how I did that. And I don't even know what it is. I just, I just able to do it.

David Robertson  18:07  
One of my early teachers taught me that energy is information. I've heard that. So what happens when you tune into other person's energy, you know, by accident or with intention, your turn, you're touching their information. So if you can read energy, interpret energy, there's nothing you cannot know. Because everything is energy.

Coach Maddox  18:37  
Wow, I never thought of it like that. But wow.

David Robertson  18:41  
You can tune into the energy of a city or a concept, a planet or a person. And in good information.

Coach Maddox  18:52  
There have been times in my life when I have had a little bit of a, it's been challenging to determine what were my feelings and what were somebody else's feelings. I mean, every once in a while, I'll just have some really intense feelings come up and I'll be like, what, what's going on? You know, that didn't make sense to me. Like life's going along really great. I'm experiencing all this sadness or anger, something that I'm like thinking everything's going good. What where's that? What is that? And then I'll have the awareness that I'm picking up on somebody else's feelings around me and it's kind of like this. You know, when I realized it's not mine, it's kind of like wipe the brown.

David Robertson  19:36  
It's everyone is sensitive, every every one of us. So when I teach classes, one of the ways I'll teach it as I will ask the class what did you feel when you walked into a funeral? What did you sense in the room? What was the mood of the room? Usually they'll say sadness, or grief. So what they did was encounter the energy that was in that room. They were reading energy, when they could identify it as sad sadness or grief. You know, another example is, what do you feel when you walk into a room where someone is fighting, you can feel the anger and the frustration hanging in the room. For all been very aware of that. What do we feel when we walk into a room where a baby is just born, we feel the excitement and joy. We're tuning into the energy. We just don't realize we're using our psychic abilities.

Coach Maddox  20:48  
I know there's been times in my life, when I've perhaps maybe been in a weekend retreat that's personal growth oriented, and everybody in the room is digging around in their, their wounds and traumas. And it's bringing up all this stuff for everybody. And I can sometimes become completely overwhelmed in a space like that, because I can feel all of it. Now I've learned over a period of time, how to kind of, like, raise my energy to be able to like deal with all of it that's coming at me. And there was a time when I read some things you know, about empaths. And it would say, you know, shield yourself. But there was a point when I realized if I'm shielding myself, I am missing out on on stuff. I had a Chinese medicine person tell me in our belief system, we don't, we don't train empaths to shield themselves, we train them to raise their energy to be able to accommodate what's coming at them. And I thought, wow, that's I really resonated with that. I thought that's brilliant, because I had the awareness of, if I'm putting a wall if I'm shielding myself to keep all that, you know, from crushing me, I'm missing out on some good stuff that comes along with that.

David Robertson  22:12  
We can train ourselves to interact, absorb not absorb this thrown word to sense the energy without absorbing it as a sponge. It's an intention. It takes some practice takes some practice to refine it as possible.

Coach Maddox  22:35  
Absolutely.

David Robertson  22:38  
You know, one of the things because I'm very much of one of I'm not much into New Age fluff, where everything is unicorns and fairies and roses and crystals and tarot cards and all that. To me, that's new age fluff. People are walking around suffering, oh, I'm an empath. I just can't cope. And all that I just, I don't buy into that. It's a choice to move into someone else's suffering. And begin to identify it and take it on as your own. Yeah, we don't have to do that.

Coach Maddox  23:19  
No, we don't. While I have found at times, the empathic thing to be challenging. I have always I've always leaned in and been grateful for it. In fact, I've most of my life, ask for more, you know, ask. Now, not more than I could handle but as much as I could handle. And I believed in and I've never ever shrunk back or run away from that. It's always been something that I I knew was something that I could use to my advantage. Something that I could use to make a difference in the world in any kind of work I was doing. I mean, I was a I was a hairdresser for four decades. And all that came in super handy in the salon. You know, because let's face it, you know, women tell their hairdressers, everything.

David Robertson  24:20  
And then some Yes, even things you don't want to know. Yes,

Coach Maddox  24:25  
absolutely. Absolutely. So when when would you say David was the real? Was the was the major turning point that time that time when you were going through the psych ward and then after that, or or was it a more lengthy process?

David Robertson  24:48  
I of course had PTSD. I didn't realize it until I was in my 30s I had actually Buried much of the trauma of my childhood. And in my mid 30s, that got triggered, came back and began to really create lots of challenges in my life. And those challenges led me to Rohan therapy, which is spiritual psych, combined with etheric surgery. And I've made an appointment with a Rowan therapist, and came from my first process, which was three days. And I began to grasp and understand self responsibility. Realizing that reality is an inside job. And that's when things really began to shift for me.

Coach Maddox  25:53  
I do with all of my heart believe we create our own reality, through our thoughts and our feelings, we create our own reality. And when we can step up and own that mean really, like you say, take personal responsibility. I call it owning it, oftentimes, I think it still takes a vigilant mind. Because, you know, we fall into old patterns and old habits ever so quickly, and we're surrounded by a world where as an empath, you can feel all that going on with everybody else, you know, there's not a lot of responsibility in our world.

David Robertson  26:34  
We were talking before we started the recording how I define self responsibility is beginning to respond to life, where there are natural inherent abilities of wisdom, love and forgiveness. Every one of us will act like a butthead when out of the flowing unknown of love. That's what happens, it happens to every one of us. And in the healing structure of Rohan, it allows us to go back and build a case of understanding for ourselves. And for our quote of users. Absolutely 100% True, no one has the right to abuse anybody else. But when we can begin to understand what was within us, that attracted the circumstances of the abuser, then we've number one, we can forgive ourselves for attracting it. And we can forgive our abuser. Because we are able in the structure of Rohan, it allows you to go back and build a case of understanding like an addict like a detective or an attorney. For what why the other person was out of the flow and knowing of love where that began for them, you begin to build a compassionate case of understanding for them as well. When you began to realize it wasn't really about you.

Coach Maddox  28:07  
And David, are you? Are you still in relationship with some of the people from that time in your life? Whether they be family members who went to school with you? Are you still in relationship with some of those people that were the abusers?

David Robertson  28:20  
I was before they're all dead now. But is what some of the biggest miracles of my life is to have nothing but compassion and forgiveness with them when they died. And I'm not bullshitting. Now to be able to feel that understanding is enormously freeing. Because they no longer own you. Because until you forgive that person, they own you. You're aware of it is conscious or subconscious. As Buddha said, not forgiving someone is like carrying around the hot coals in your hand and expecting them to burn someone else.

Coach Maddox  29:13  
Yeah, I've heard a similar metaphor with poison drinking poison and hoping it'll kill somebody else. It is true and the forgiveness process I find to be something that's multi layered. You know, you do this work and you think you've gotten to the bottom and then here it comes again. You know, it's just like peeling that onion.

David Robertson  29:35  
It comes off in layers, like an onion, as you said, and I think one of the big misperceptions when people have what they struggle with in forgiveness is believing once you forgive someone, they're all there scot free. It's not true

Coach Maddox  29:51  
that you have condemned their actions. Right?

David Robertson  29:55  
All you're doing is understanding and forgiving the universe. We'll hold them accountable for their actions, all you're doing is free in your reactive energy within. It's not, it's not up to us to punish or make sure they get punished. The universe takes care of that.

Coach Maddox  30:19  
Forgiveness is definitely an act of self love, because the person who most benefits from forgiveness is the person that's doing the forgiving. And that's something that a lot of people can't, they can't

David Robertson  30:32  
quite grasp that. And I think that's the important part of forgiveness is realizing you're not letting the other person off the hook. You are individually. But the universe will hold them accountable will hold them in balance. It comes back. Oh, yes, I saw especially my sexual abuser.

I saw it in his life. The rest of his life was pure hell in misery.

Yes. Because he was carrying whether he was conscious of it or not, was carrying the shame and guilt for what he did.

Coach Maddox  31:11  
It's the boomerang effect. And he continually

David Robertson  31:14  
attracted circumstances to punish himself. And it did not stop till the day died. Wow.

Coach Maddox  31:26  
Yeah, I mean, not that I wish anything on people, but there is a certain level of comfort that goes along that knowing, knowing that you know what goes around, comes around.

David Robertson  31:40  
Another important thing about forgiveness is if we do not forgive, we stay karmically tied to that person. We literally create energetic chords. There can be more than one that connect between different chakras. And the two parties involved. And those chords do not go away when we die. If we do not forgive, we will have that person in our life for many lifetimes, until we forgive them. There's no wishful thinking away, you have to move into, because that cord is made up of faulty thoughts and negative feelings. Till you go in and build your case of understanding and forgive yourself for the thoughts and the negative feelings, and forgive the other person. The energy remains vital, it remains alive. Love and forgiveness are the two energies in the universe that can transform any circumstance. And those are the only two are love and forgiveness. You must dissolve those chords with love and forgiveness, or you're tied to them. And I'm sorry, I have a stubborn old Scottish mountain hillbilly and I do not want anybody having power over me. And if we do not forgive, that person still has power over you.

Coach Maddox  33:16  
Yeah, I feel that from time to time. So I know exactly what you're saying. So in all of the the abuse that you endured, was there something that you had to forgive?

David Robertson  33:34  
Myself? Perhaps, yes. Yes.

Coach Maddox  33:40  
I think you had to forgive yourself for yes, that was what I was asked you will.

David Robertson  33:45  
As you begin to move deep into your spiritual work 98% Of all deep spiritual work is self forgiveness. 2% is forgiving other people. So I had to begin to forgive myself. For the faulty thoughts and negative feelings I was carrying inside of me that attracted the abuse. I was raping myself with my own consciousness. Therefore I attracted the circumstances. Now I know that's a heavy statement.

Coach Maddox  34:25  
It's it's a very bold statement. It's also in my experience, a very true statement. And it's the place that most people are are resistant to hear that to acknowledge that

David Robertson  34:40  
and I do want to clarify, I'm not blaming the victim. I'm not victim shaming, that's not what I'm about. But true healing cannot occur until we begin to take responsibility for our role in attracting it.

Coach Maddox  34:58  
I'm I'm in completed bring it with you. And I do think that life begins to dramatically change when you can step into that, that responsibility your part in it. And I think somebody's worded it to me recently in a way that I, that really impacted me. And it was, it was a teacher, somebody I was reading or listening to, can you just see

David Robertson  35:27  
10%

Coach Maddox  35:30  
of your own accountability in what happened to you. It's not like, we tend to think a lot of times in black and white. It's either their fault or our fault. And that's not really the way it works at all.

David Robertson  35:49  
It's always

Coach Maddox  35:51  
a given a take, it's always the gray area, both parties had a role. As you said a minute ago, it was your thinking, your feeling, your your way of showing up in the world that was attracting those experiences to you. And until we can fully embrace that and own it, we can't change our life.

David Robertson  36:21  
And that's best, what you said is so vitally important. We cannot wishful thinking our way into healing. We have to take responsibility. One of my guides, I've had for many years taught me that self responsibility is the one and only gateway into our divine powers. There's not another one, you know, I lived most of my life in Asheville, North Carolina, which is the center of New Age thought, or at least on the east coast in the United States. And I would constantly see people and I'm not judging, I'm observing, go around and declaring, oh, I'm a shaman. I'm a Reiki Master. And then the next breath. Be whining about what their parents did, what their partners doing, what the government is doing, or what the aliens are doing to them. They were still seduced enchanted by their own victim consciousness cannot know our divine power, until we began to take responsibility for the life we created. That's the only way it through that doorway.

Coach Maddox  37:43  
Well, and I want to call out the key words there we created. You know, I'm I am always harping on how if we want life to be different, or better, we have to do the work. Nobody's ever going to hand anything to us on a silver platter, it's not going to fall out of the sky and land in front of you or hit you in your head. You have to do the fucking work

David Robertson  38:10  
we do. And doing the work is how we begin to know our power, when we begin to use our wisdom, to build a case of understanding for ourselves and for another person. And that understanding allows us to move to the alchemical process of forgiveness. Then we know the power of our wisdom. To experience it's very easy to read a book, or go to a lecture and be an intellectual agreement with spiritual theory. It's a whole other ballgame to begin to walk it.

Coach Maddox  38:54  
It's a whole other ballgame to be able to live it. Yeah, yeah, I've known many people in my life that were a walking encyclopedia, or all of that, and yet, they couldn't implement it in their own life.

David Robertson  39:12  
Because they were frightened. They were truly frightened and facing themselves. So they adopt this. They live in a fantasy world. You know, I hear hear it a lot in the spiritual communities. Oh, I'm totally enlightened. I'm just here to heal and be of service. I have no inner work to do. And the minute they say that, I'm like, okay, honey, I love you. But you ain't awake yet.

Coach Maddox  39:44  
Yeah, I would. I would never claim to be an enlightened human being.

David Robertson  39:48  
I'm, I've had moments of an wake of awakening. But I'm buying domains enlightened. When we are enlightened, we walk on water and move mountains. Once

Coach Maddox  40:00  
we have sand

David Robertson  40:05  
Well, that brings up another thought. I believe ascension is a daily choice. We must be willing to rise above the limited awareness of our personality and rise up in our energy system and connect with our higher self. That part of us that knows we are an individualized aspect of God. That's essential. And that's a tall order. Not really. If you choose it every day, it becomes much, much less intimidating. And there's a Sunday's we don't use it. And we screw up. It's okay. We're learning. We don't we master nothing. If we don't practice it, you know, I'm a classically trained singer that sing in Lincoln Center when I was in my 20s. And how did I get there? Practice, practice, practice. How do you get to Carnegie Hall and you practice the same way with your divine abilities of harmony, wisdom and love, you kind of begin to use them, the more you use them, you see that irrefutable evidence of their power, the more you see that power, the more excited you get about it, and you start to use it in your life transforms. You know, I work with a lot of PTSD patients, you know, right now I'm working with a, somebody who just got out of the military as an as a Navy Seal, I've worked with lots of soldiers with PTSD. And they heal it and begin to lead productive, fulfilling lives with that self responsibility. Because that self responsibility allows them to begin to feel their power and use it, to put the past behind them, stop living in it. And you know, astrology astrologically wise, I'm a cancer, we're known for hanging on to the past. I understand that hanging on to it, tying it on to the pain. But what I realized about hanging on and telling ourselves the same stories over and over, it's really an attempt to control the past

Coach Maddox  42:44  
year, which is kind of a joke.

David Robertson  42:45  
Yeah. If we, if if I tell my story enough times to myself into the world, by God, I can change it. It's not ever going to happen. God gave us many talents and many abilities, changing the past ain't one of them.

Coach Maddox  43:03  
And our story becomes our reality. I always say change your story, change your life. I'm always in and even daily basis. In fact, the new partner and I we talk about this, almost daily, one of us will catch the other one and just say, Okay, how can you reframe that? It's been amazing support, to have somebody that close, be able to say something as simple as. So how could you reframe that in a manner that would be empowering?

David Robertson  43:37  
And I asked myself a very similar question. All right, how can I be the creator here and not the victim? Because the truth is, we are never the victim of any circumstance. We are always the creator of every circumstance of our life.

Coach Maddox  43:58  
Well, in playing that victimhood thing, there's no there's no power in that. There's zero victimhood,

David Robertson  44:05  
it actually begins to turn us into abusers ourselves.

Coach Maddox  44:10  
And I think that's really important thing to call out. I'm glad you said that. Because if you look back, it's very easy to see, it's very easy to see that. If you had an abusive father, at some point, you learn that he was abused by his father. And that's why it's passed down from generation degeneration because the victim becomes the abuser. Just, it's it's apparent. It's all around us.

David Robertson  44:40  
And there are many, many subtle ways of abusing. Oh, yes, we all have a dark shadow side. I don't care who you are, what initials or titles you have, in front or behind your name. You have a dark side That dark side is fueled by feelings of unworthiness, hopelessness, helplessness, anger, judgment, or fear. That's our shadow side. Our shadow side is not werewolves and vampires and politicians much more subtle. The dark or the shadow in the world is very subtle and very hypnotic. There wasn't it wouldn't have survived, they very easy to spot and say no. But I think it's also important to realize that our shadow side is a teacher that is there to teach us very specific lessons. As souls we come to earth to participate. I see Mother Earth as a university. And we come here to explore and master every aspect of consciousness by exploring it. All the archetypal dark energies and the archetype type of light energies, we must explore them in order to master them. And you know, God's sitting up there compassionately observing, we can act like real asshole one day, we can be real tyrannical and our behavior toward another person. God's sitting up there observing, oh, Dave is exploring the archetypal energy of the tyrant today. In order to master it. Judgment, God set up the entire course the entire curriculum. He's not judging it. He's he's observing our progress.

Coach Maddox  46:56  
Our growth? Yeah. Our evolution, you're right. Good stuff.

David Robertson  47:03  
No, that's what we're here to do is to evolve.

Coach Maddox  47:09  
So David, I would love to know a little bit. Now fast forward to where you are in life. Now, this long term taking responsibility for your life. The self forgiveness followed by the forgiveness of others. What has that produced in your life,

David Robertson  47:31  
completely transformed every aspect of my life. Relationships, find finances where I live, I mean, it's all when I found Rohan 15 years ago, and then began my own training to be a run therapist. My life has shifted and changed in truly miraculous ways. I until I found Rohan. All I wanted was get the hell off this planet did not want to be here. Three failed suicide attempts. I was like, what's the fuck noose and try and I'm just going to fail again. So I've lived my life feeling trapped, and hopeless and depressed. But once I began to move inward and apply that self responsibility My life has changed in ways that are indescribable. So can

Coach Maddox  48:39  
you can you give us some concrete examples?

David Robertson  48:47  
Much more harmonious relationships. Because I stopped looking for someone else to make me sick, to make me feel safe, make me feel loved, make me feel important. Those are all things that strain and destroy relationships.

Coach Maddox  49:07  
Did you find once you took responsibility for that, and had the awareness that had to come from you had to come from inside? Did you find that? I mean, in my experience prior to realizing that, you know, seeking it out here it was this elusive thing that I could never find. And then as soon as I discovered that it had to come from in here, and I got really in touch with that. Then it started to show up everywhere out there.

David Robertson  49:44  
I'm thinking of another example is for many years I struggled with money. And if we're lacking money in our life, it is rooted in unworthiness. As much does not flow to us, it flows from us. And as I began to regain my sense of self worth, it began to flow to me effortlessly. I now own a beautiful home, this completely paid for. I have no debt. I haven't quite nice income stream that comes in steadily.

I have a community of loving, supportive friends that are not out to fuck me because I have a nice body in a bubble. But you know, that used to be one of the real things that kept me out of the gay community was being seen as just a piece of meat.

Coach Maddox  50:50  
Yeah, that's a real thing, isn't it? Yeah,

David Robertson  50:52  
all of that has shifted. You know,

Coach Maddox  50:55  
we think the pretty boys had it made in the shade. And that's not the case at all, that that could be the most challenging thing to be if you had that, you know, great looks beefy body in the bubble. But because everybody does view you as a piece of Nate meat, nobody's looking for your inner beauty.

David Robertson  51:19  
Right? There. They, they, they want to date you because your arm candy. Or if you don't date them, then they turn on you. You're a snob. Yeah, I found the gay community national to be quite vicious and small minded. I finally just stepped out of it.

Coach Maddox  51:42  
Well, I think no matter where you go, there's an element of that in our community. And I used to believe that it was pretty much all of our community. But that has changed. My view has really changed after a year of this podcast, and interviewing men and having these lengthy conversations about authenticity. It the podcast itself has drawn an insane number of men to me, that are drawn because of the conversation about authenticity. It's been actually quite miraculous.

David Robertson  52:27  
quite miraculous,

Coach Maddox  52:29  
is and I didn't anticipate that, you know, I kind of thought I was going to be preaching to a, you know, to no audience. You know, I did, I didn't know if anybody was interested in what I was talking about. And it's been shocking to me, and it continues to grow. And I get so much good feedback now, and but it has definitely just drawn very real, very genuine, carrying men into my life. You know, the new relationship being being one of them. He's remarkable. He's just remarkable, and how gentle and kind he is and how just not a judgmental bone in his body.

David Robertson  53:27  
And you deserve it. You've done the inner work, too, I have done the

Coach Maddox  53:32  
inner work. You know, there was this. When we started dating, I had this awareness that in any other time in my life, I would have run from this guy. And then the reason I would have run was I would not have believed that I deserved that

David Robertson  53:56  
I would have

Coach Maddox  53:58  
what he was offering would have scared the shit out of me and I would have just run. And because others have offered it to me along the way. And I've always run. And this time, I didn't run. This time I didn't even have any any inkling or notion of running. I just am firmly planted and yes, bring it on. And that, you know, that's very telling. I mean, it might have been just a year ago that I would have run something and the podcast has played a big role in my own evolution. I never dreamed that this would grow me the way it's grown me. I've learned so much from these conversations. I've fully

David Robertson  54:45  
understand that because one of the biggest gifts of my life is being a Rohan therapist, because it continually keeps me on top of self awareness every day A I see myself and my clients into the day, every human has the same for deep fears. Below the surface, we're all so much alike. It's mind boggling

Coach Maddox  55:18  
there, there have certainly been in almost every conversation that I've had on these episodes. There's some aspect of my story. In the man's story that I'm talking to, I can see myself in some shape, form or fashion. In every man that I speak to.

David Robertson  55:41  
We are many we are one. Yes, absolutely. I want to share something about I use the word gift of being gay. Every human, male or female, is equal parts masculine, and feminine energy. Every thought we have is masculine. Every feeling we have is feminine. And I believe gay people choose to be, you know, when we're up here, planning our next life. We choose to be gay, we choose to move into the genetic codes that will allow ourselves to be expressed as a homosexual. And that provides us a very targeted opportunity to bring our thinking selves and our feeling selves, our masculine and our feminine into harmony and balance. That's what life is about.

Coach Maddox  56:48  
I had that experience probably about two and a half years ago, there was this moment when I had fought those, those shifting energies, those different energies, and there was a moment when I brought them in, I integrated them. And there was this sense of peace that came over me. And it's it's stayed two and a half years ago, like I had been at odds with the women in the masculine, it felt like this tug of war and, and there was so much responsibility or pressure to do one or the other. And when I finally just came to that moment, when I realized that the perfection was in the integration, the perfection was in the embracing both the perfection was in realizing that in any given moment, I could call on whichever energy was appropriate for that moment. That date piece came, and it has prevailed.

David Robertson  58:06  
Yeah, and many spiritual masters have big highfalutin words for that. But it's called inner peace. When we bring Thought and Feeling together in harmony, we are a piece we have to remember that it is our masculine energy that carries the wisdom. It's our feminine energy that carries the lump. So what we're working for inwardly is for love to become the bride of wisdom, and for wisdom to become the groom of love. And when those two are working in balance, life begins to smooth out, become productive and fulfilling.

Coach Maddox  58:57  
I've never heard it worded quite like that. But I get it. I get it. You're and you're right, life became much more fulfilling and life just shifted it when I integrated and came to that piece. That you know, like you said, the spouses that have the wisdom and the love. It began to attract completely different people to me.

David Robertson  59:25  
You're attracting people who have also done their inner work and began to create that inner balance. That inner peace that inner harmony. Good staff. I forgot I had something important to say I guess it wasn't important because now I've forgotten it. I think it's important for people to stop looking to reach a place where life is always rainbows and unicorns. That is a fan

Coach Maddox  1:00:00  
To see it is not exist,

David Robertson  1:00:03  
it is not going to happen, even with self awareness.

Coach Maddox  1:00:08  
And when you really want it to life would get really boring, it would be so boring.

David Robertson  1:00:16  
But with self awareness, as the tests and challenges arrive, we can begin to respond to the test and challenges with our abilities of harmony, wisdom, love and forgiveness, and move through that test in five minutes. First, staying in that test for days, weeks, months, or years, I look back on my own life. But I didn't know how to apply my inner resources, my inner abilities, some of the test, and challenges which consumed me for years. And now some of that very similar energy can come up, and I can literally move through it in five minutes.

Coach Maddox  1:00:58  
I can relate to that I'm having some experiences, you know, there's nothing like a relationship to bring all your unresolved shit up, pushing every button, pushing every button, and I am having an experience of something that would have taken me forever, like you're saying, now with just love acceptance and wisdom to move through it in moments sometimes. i Right now, I mean, if it if it lasts two hours, that's a long time. And, wow, what a different experience in life.

David Robertson  1:01:37  
It is. And I think that's the beautiful thing about relationships, is they provide us mirrors to see ourselves clearly, to see

Coach Maddox  1:01:44  
what's unhealed, nothing like a relationship to show you all the unhealed parts of yourself.

David Robertson  1:01:52  
I tell folks every day, what you refuse to forgive and another, you have yet to forgive within yourself.

Coach Maddox  1:02:01  
That's powerful that that I think that is your wisdom of the day right there. David, would you say that again, I don't really want the listeners to get that.

David Robertson  1:02:11  
That which you refused to forgive and another, you have not forgiven in yourself. Wow, if you are judging someone not forgiving them for being an abuser, and abuser, whatever type of abuse it is. When you look deep enough within yourself or within your past and even including past lives in that you have not forgiven yourself cannot forgive the other person.

Coach Maddox  1:02:45  
You know, I think that I can bring a real life example of that to the table right now. I mean, I had a dream last night about my father. He's been dead for 10 years. And I've done all kinds of forgiveness work around around him. And we had every conversation that needed to happen before he passed. Like I even said to him one time, it's really important to me that that you not die with unsaid things. And I said, Is there anything you need to say to me? And he said, I think I've said it all? He said, Is there anything you need to say to me? And I said no, I think I've said it all, we couldn't come up with anything that hadn't already been said and acknowledged. And so a lot of that was done. And as you're speaking right now, I'm really the dream last night was like my dad was a very critical human being he criticized everybody around him. And there have been times in my life when, as you said the body, the victim becomes the abuser. I have seen that criticism and myself. Not only being critical of myself, but being critical of those around me. And it's a very bright moment when I realized that, you know, oh shit, I become my father. On some level.

David Robertson  1:04:13  
Well, the truth of that statement is is that you were already your father. Because when we're up here as our higher selves, planning our next lifetime, we choose parents that are reflections like our father will be a reflection of our masculine energy, or mother will be a reflection of her feminine energy. And we come through them.

Coach Maddox  1:04:39  
I just gotta say I like to the reflection mom was reflecting back to me a lot better than what dad was reflecting to me. But yeah, I mean, you have helped me right now realize that there is still a level of forgiveness for self and for him both. You know, thinking that I had kind of done a All that yet every once in a while he shows up in a dream and kind of a not so pleasant way. And I've been wondering, you know, what does this mean? You know, and now I have, I know what it means now I got my moment of clarity. So Wow.

David Robertson  1:05:16  
Evolution is really truly evolution of consciousness is a painfully slow process. Yes. It's taken 1000s of lifetimes which, you know, if you, the truth is all those lifetimes are actually happening once in spirit, there is no concept of time it doesn't exist. This still, for us to mature in our spiritual awareness takes a long damn time. So we'd have to be kind and patient with ourselves as we evolve. And as we see our progress, we have to celebrate it. We have to celebrate our progress. And that celebrating our progress allows us to take the next little step forward.

Coach Maddox  1:06:09  
I'm I think you're Yeah, you know, I'm having an experience right now of even though there's this painful aspect of realizing that I still have some forgiveness to do for me and for dad. There's also I mean, you saw my energy a minute ago, I was kind of like, I was excited to have that awareness because you can't change what you can't see, you can't heal what you can't find. And I have just had that moment of discovery. And now I know precisely what I need to do.

David Robertson  1:06:44  
You as you're delving in to self awareness, if you lift into a place of compassionate observation, and begin to identify what really pisses you off about your mom, what really pisses you off about your dad, then you can begin to look at why you're here. What you're here to transform, because so same patterns of behavior that are in mom and dad are in you.

Coach Maddox  1:07:14  
They're the same things that piss you off about yourself.

David Robertson  1:07:17  
Exactly. Yep,

Coach Maddox  1:07:20  
yep. Good.

David Robertson  1:07:22  
That's the thing about ascending, I think we must ascend into our higher awareness to begin to heal, I say, we got to form a partnership between our personality and our higher self. Without that partnership, there is no permanent transformation or healing, that's going to occur.

Coach Maddox  1:07:50  
That makes sense, I've never heard it, it can

David Robertson  1:07:53  
happen. It's ourselves, that closes the door to miracles, all miracles, by their very nature already exist. We're the ones who's close the door. So we have to partnership with our higher self and open the door to the miracle. In order for it to flow into this dimension. We're the one standing in the way. God's not up there keeping score about who deserves miracles. And who doesn't.

Coach Maddox  1:08:31  
Always I agree, we're always the one that's standing in our own way. So David, if a listener is just most intrigued by what you're talking about, and wanted to know more, or perhaps even maybe wanted to work with you, how would they contact you?

David Robertson  1:08:48  
The easiest way because I'm not good with computers is to write me an email address, blue rich, Mystic, the number one@gmail.com.

Coach Maddox  1:09:03  
And would you like me to put that in the show notes along with your Yes, sir episode.

David Robertson  1:09:09  
And you can even text me, I think you've got my phone number. So if you want to include that in the show notes, I'm more than open to that.

Coach Maddox  1:09:18  
Okay, because I think I think that there's going to be some certain percentage of folks are gonna be very intrigued by this and just want to know more. And so I will make sure you guys can get that his phone number and his email address in the show notes. So this has been awesome. I love your journey. I love your story. And I love all of the wisdom that you have shared today. It's been epic. Are you are you are you ready for some rapid fire questions? Oh, sure. Okay. So

David Robertson  1:09:53  
let me build up here. Yeah,

Coach Maddox  1:09:55  
yeah, get ready and for some rapid fire answers. What are you most afraid of?

David Robertson  1:10:03  
The unknown? Okay,

Coach Maddox  1:10:08  
yep, yep, I think I can see that. If you could go back in time and say anything that you would like to say to the younger you, what age would you visit?

David Robertson  1:10:25  
And what would you tell him years old.

Coach Maddox  1:10:32  
When I say the name, the age again,

David Robertson  1:10:35  
I was eight, when I was eight years old, I had a near death experience. And I would love to be able to tell a little me his true purpose and what was behind it. Because it took me decades to make peace with that I felt like a freak. And just to have the understanding, get very emotionally the feeling that

Coach Maddox  1:11:04  
it's okay. Would you like to share what you would have told little David

David Robertson  1:11:12  
that everything has a purpose. You're extraordinarily powerful beam of light. You're following a path. It's um, everything is unfolding exactly as it needs to. Beautiful. Because there's not one client that can get on my table and go into any trauma, trauma or abuse that I have not experienced. And come out on the other side of so if I can do it, I know from experience, they can do it.

Coach Maddox  1:11:53  
Yes. David, I want to honor your vulnerability. That's beautiful. I was gonna get emotional over that. But I did. Yeah. It's, it's, it's beautiful. Okay, final question. All right. What matters most to you and why? Myself and honoring my path. Honoring my purpose. Being true to my purpose. Because if I'm not living my purpose, I bored there's no point in me being here. Yeah. Yeah, I know why I'm not on purpose. It is a good sport. It goes even beyond board, it gets into something dark.

David Robertson  1:13:02  
I personally believe no one has the power to heal anyone else. I am very good at walking with people. And helping them heal themselves. Getting them in alignment with their own divine ability so they can heal themselves and come out empowered on the other side. Yeah, that's, that's, that's why I'm here.

Coach Maddox  1:13:32  
Yeah, and I have, I have no doubt. You are quite good at what you do.

David Robertson  1:13:39  
Yeah, if you ever worked with me, I will remind you of that state. Because sometimes, you know, I'm pretty direct. And people are will shove you right into the middle of your shit and hold you in. Yeah. Because you need to experience what that's doing to you instead of running from it. And once you finally face it, then you can begin to heal it.

Coach Maddox  1:14:06  
Yeah, I can see where you'd be. Occasionally.

David Robertson  1:14:09  
I'm not. I'm very I'm very firm, because I know. That's what's required. I'm very loving. To me, that is love is to hold your feet in the fire.

Coach Maddox  1:14:23  
I know exactly what you're talking about. There were times when I had to do that at the salon with a hair client. So I fully get it. No sugarcoating. You had to Yeah, you had to just tell it like it is.

David Robertson  1:14:37  
One of my teachers when I was at the University studying to be a Roman therapist, and I still laugh over this statement. She's a baby. When when they find that hotspot, you nail their foot to the floor and don't let them budge. Because that's where the healing needs to. That's where they need to bring in. They need to apply their love and their wisdom, forgiveness. right there. Yeah, don't let them back out of it.

Coach Maddox  1:15:05  
Exactly. You know, the clients will

David Robertson  1:15:07  
twist and squirm and I've been slapped and I've been kicked and you know, a lot of things that people are hitting that intense energy, they've been running from it, sometimes for lifetimes. Yeah. Then they get in there and actually do the work. And they get through it. And they feel the release of all that psychic weight they've been carrying. And they drop 10 years in an age. Their health improves, then they love me. Oh, yes. Yes, I remember, I know, just I think of it every holiday. I have to turn. And I'm not bragging, I'm just observing, but I have to turn my phone off. Like Christmas or New Years. Because it's one message after another from all over the world. I couldn't work I couldn't wrist, my damn phone would be going off continually.

Coach Maddox  1:16:11  
Well, you can respond to that many people either.

David Robertson  1:16:15  
I can't, I can't. I do energetically as they send me their love. I'm of course always sending it, sending it back to them. I'm sending them love. But I've seen I think I was telling you a while ago, I've worked with people from Lebanon, Japan, Australia, Belgium, all over the States, Canada. And I love knowing that I've helped people empower themselves. Because they are then shining that light of empowerment in different places on the globe.

Coach Maddox  1:16:54  
Yes, that ripple effect.

David Robertson  1:16:56  
Yes, you've read in my mind. One of the most things that excites me about Rohan therapy is all the work that I'm still doing on myself and my clients are doing to myself as they enlightened themselves, they are contributing that light to the collective. Yes, there is now more light in the collective than there has ever been in mankind's entire evolutionary journey. And it's because people are starting to turn within and heal. And we're moving approaching that moment in time where we're going to finally get that 100 Monkey. For enough people have gone in to do their inner work and contributed all that healing to the collective. And the collective is going to shift in a huge, dramatic way.

Coach Maddox  1:17:50  
Yeah, boy, am I ready, I'm doing my part.

David Robertson  1:17:54  
And this, this this year of 2023 is going to be hugely significant for humanity. I was just doing a meditation yesterday with some friends of mine, about the energies of 2023. And what's coming and it's going to be an enormous year of shifting perceptions. There's Riley need, there's more light pouring into this dimension than there's ever been before. And all that light is pushing the darkness to the surface to be healed. Stop saying oh shit, oh, woe is us get excited. Because the dark has to come to the surface to be healed.

Coach Maddox  1:18:41  
And it is absolutely doing that. Absolutely. David, this has been wonderful. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. And I just would like to honor you and tell you that even with the label, I definitely experienced you as an authentic gay man, or just an authentic man, or just authentic. Just take all the labels off.

David Robertson  1:19:13  
And thank you for providing the opportunity for so many people to come together and begin to see themselves because I know what your podcast is doing. People are seeing themselves in other people and they no longer feel alone or isolate.

Coach Maddox  1:19:32  
That was definitely the intention. Definitely one of the intention to allow people to be seen, heard and understood, to let them know they're not alone. And to let them know there's a different way.

David Robertson  1:19:47  
And I believe your purpose in your career is just as important and just as valid and just as needed as mine. Thank you. We're just playing different roles.

Coach Maddox  1:20:00  
I am receiving that thank you very much that means a lot

Transcribed by https://otter.ai